DomoPad on the $50 Kindle Fire

[clawmd]

I have a rental home that I am planning to upgrade from Indigo from Vera. I had planned to use some wall mounted iPads for guests to be able to use control pages and also be able to view Security Spy cameras. After reading this discussion, it seems that there really isn't a need for iPads. Unfortunately I have zero experience with these devices.
Is it possible to configure them so renters can't completely bugger them up?
Is there any reason to go with the much more expensive 10"?
Is there any reason to get a model with additional RAM?
The current models appear to include Alexa. Can this be used in the same way currently use the echo dot?
Will there be upgrade issues after the Google Play Store mod is done?

Thanks for any advice!

[roussell]

I have a rental home that I am planning to upgrade from Indigo from Vera. I had planned to use some wall mounted iPads for guests to be able to use control pages and also be able to view Security Spy cameras. After reading this discussion, it seems that there really isn't a need for iPads. Unfortunately I have zero experience with these devices.
Is it possible to configure them so renters can't completely bugger them up?
Is there any reason to go with the much more expensive 10"?
Is there any reason to get a model with additional RAM?
The current models appear to include Alexa. Can this be used in the same way currently use the echo dot?
Will there be upgrade issues after the Google Play Store mod is done?

Thanks for any advice!

If you're thinking about putting something like this in a rental home, I'd choose a slightly different path. While the Fire will work mostly fine, and Adam's app is fantastic for control - putting the combination of the two in a rental property could cause some unintended maintenance and security issues. Instead of the fire, consider this:

Install a PoE (power over ethernet) purpose-buit unwell tablet such as this:
http://www.geekland.co/7-Android-Wall-M ... 896s-E.htm
With this, you can easily lock the device to a single app and since it's mounted *in* the wall rather than *on* it, it reduces the chance of somebody stealing/damaging it. Furthermore, since it's powered over an Ethernet cable, you don't have to do something hacky with a power cable and 5volt adapter. With a good PoE switch, you can even power off specific ports remotely, giving you the power to restart the tablet remotely if needed. You can also connect several PoE security cameras to the PoE switch giving you additional flexibility if you need it.

Regarding the software, DomoPad is top-shelf, but I wouldn't install it in a rental arrangement; simply because within the app, there is a higher level control of the system than I'd wish to give a temporary resident. Instead, I'd design some very simple, intuitive control pages that would be easily usable for the residents, with a home page that shows some useful information (if it's a beach property as an example, high tide times, water temps, local restaurants that deliver, emergency numbers, etc.). I'd then display the control pages using a kiosk-style browser such as "Fully Kiosk Browser" or "Kiosk Browser SE". Both are in the play store and are very good at presenting an interface and not not allowing the user to back out to something else. If you install an app like that and lock it down on something like the device above, you'll create a much more stable and controllable environment.

The Fire (or any general purpose tablet) is fine for "us" when we're at home and can quickly screw around with it when it gets off track. That's a lot harder and a much bigger pain if you have a guest/tenant/resident phoning you in the middle of the night because something unexpected happened on the interface.

Hope this helps!
Terry

[roussell]

BTW, regarding installing the Play store and it interfering with future OS updates; you'll have to reinstall the play store APKs when Amazon updates the Android version underneath, but that's the only time, and it doesn't hurt the tablet or the already installed apps, the play store just won't launch. An update to the underlying OS doesn't happen often; intact it's happened only once to me in the past 18 months or so that I've used it. Also, the resolution and processor is the same on the 8 and the 10, so unless you just want a bigger screen, there's no real benefit to the 10. I think the 8 has the best value, the RAM isn't user selectable, just the storage size. For a control interface, the lowest is fine (8G in the 7", 16G in the 8"), and in either case, the storage is upgradable with an external memory card..

Terry

[clawmd]

Really useful information. Our guests are generally very careful with things, but sometimes you have to wonder what they were thinking. Bulletproof is worth spending extra when it avoids trying to talk somebody through a solution over the phone. Poe is a great suggestion, and I already have a switch for my network cameras. It would be nice if I could create guest control pages and pages for myself.

[roussell]

Really useful information. Our guests are generally very careful with things, but sometimes you have to wonder what they were thinking. Bulletproof is worth spending extra when it avoids trying to talk somebody through a solution over the phone. Poe is a great suggestion, and I already have a switch for my network cameras. It would be nice if I could create guest control pages and pages for myself.

That PoE tablet is really popular, several people on different HA boards use them. I just haven't bit the bullet and got one yet. We're planning a move next year so not wanting to start cutting new holes in the walls. The only down side is the lower resolution (1024x600, same as the Fire 7") and the Android 4.4.2 install. I'm not sure if it's possible with upgrade the OS, to at least 5.x but it might be worth asking the manufacturer, Sibo: http://www.cnsibo.cc/sale-8294178-sibo- ... acket.html

There is a 10" PoE tablet with 1280x800 resolution and Android 5.1.1 for $339USD - http://geekland.co/101-Android-VESA-Wal ... 10-LAN.htm but I'm not crazy about that form factor, it looks as though it stands off the wall an inch or more. However, there is a guy on the OpenHAB boards that has 20 or so of these installed in his house and he said they work really well and he's had no problems with them. I personally think the 7" PoE version looks better on (in) the wall, and as long as you design your control panels to support the resolution I wouldn't think it's be a problem. I have some test pages for the 7" Fires and they look and function fine at that same lower resolution; I'm making some pages for my 5 year old daughter's room and the 7 is a perfect form factor and the larger-controls and simpler screens seem to work great for her.

Terry

[clawmd]

So my understanding is that an android tablet can run control pages reasonably well as long as the pages are designed for the screen size/resolution. In situations where control pages alone are adequate, Domopad is not necessary and may provide users with too much control. POE is a potentially useful, albeit expensive, option that is found on commercial style tablets that are designed for a wall cutout. If cutting into the wall is not feasible, if it is easier to directly power, or if running Ethernet to the device is problematic then a tablet like fire 8 might be a good option. Am I missing something?

[roussell]

Yep that pretty much sums it up, perhaps others can join in with their observations.

BTW, Vidabox is now making nice wall mount enclosures for all of the Fire sizes. At $99 for any size, it seems high for the 7". But it does look nice.

http://www.vidabox.com/kiosks/amazon_fi ... loor_stand

Terry

[RogueProeliator]

Domopad is not necessary and may provide users with too much control.

At present, since Indigo doesn't support multiple user accounts with various permissions, I would agree with that statement. However, it may be an option in the future as I am investigating adding a "Guest" mode just for this type of purpose (any guest, but could be a "renter" at the house). This guest mode would lock the user into your specified Control Page (set) so that they cannot break out into the other control areas. Also should be able to run the app as a launcher as Terry suggested such that hitting the Home button returns them to the application. Haven't started on that yet but hope to do it after this weekend (have to do taxes... blech.).

[roussell]

Haven't started on that yet but hope to do it after this weekend (have to do taxes... blech.).

I (hopefully) got everything to my accountant just this morning. Blech is right!

The upcoming enhancements sound cool, looking forward to trying them out!

Terry

[roussell]

Gonna leave this here for future reference: This guy opened up his Fire 7, soldered on wires and a connector for back-of-unit power rather than use the side usb. He also put a wireless charger in another 7, using the same technique. I think this would only easily work with the 7, because it's so easy to open. The 8HD seems to be a pain to get into as the "shell" is one-piece and the screen is glued to it. https://shadow.sh/kindle-hacks-galore-w ... ll-mounts/

Terry

[clawmd]

Some very useful information, especially for automating a vacation rental.
The kindle fire 8 can also hacked https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Amazon+Fir ... ment/61736 This uses a heat gun to soften the glue that holds it together. I think I may simply incorporate the wiring into a frame. Sticking the pad to the wall will always look like a kindle stuck to the wall. Making a frame out of copper, and finishing it with a patina will make it an art piece and will also hide wiring.
The ability to have control pages for different groups would be very cool.

[Different Computers]

I notice that the current $50 Fire comes with "special offers" which translates into end user speak as "unwanted main screen ads."

By rooting or side loading or sacrificing a chicken or whatever, is it possible to remove these ads?

[roussell]

I notice that the current $50 Fire comes with "special offers" which translates into end user speak as "unwanted main screen ads."

By rooting or side loading or sacrificing a chicken or whatever, is it possible to remove these ads?

Not without paying the extra $20 to Amazon (you can pay anytime, even after buying), or by rooting, which isn't (yet) possible on the past few versions of FireOS. I have a couple of them with the ads; they're only visible on the lock screen, so after you hit the power/wakeup button, and before you swipe to unlock. After that point there is no difference in the ones with or without ads. I have mine set to not lock so the only time I've seen the ads is after a restart of the tablet.

Terry

[Different Computers]

That's very helpful! Thanks Roussell!

[Different Computers]

Hey all, FYI the Fire HD 8 is on sale today for $64.99, which is $25 off.

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on one.