Quick question: is there still a 27 device limit on the Echo (I was careful not to blame the plugin). I ask because Alexa found 29 devices, I haven't tested all 29 to see if they indeed all work, but they all show up in the Alexa, app and none are ghosted out. I did send feedback to Amazon a couple of weeks ago about this limitation, but never did hear back. The difference could be because I have a real Hue bridge, maybe? If that limitation is been lifted, I'd have a field day, because I sure have a lot more devices then that! The most impressive and useful uses so far are being able to turn the TV on or off, as well as the stereo. This has got to be the best control device to date, makes an HA nut like me very happy
BTW, I would click the "cup off coffee for the developers" button, when appropriate. But there would need to be a drop down for plugin developers for it to be completely useful.
I've just ordered an Echo and have done a bunch of reading over the last couple of days. I have a couple of questions.
1. The 27 device limit confuses me. From the questions and answers on Amazon's site, people seem to indicate there are no real limits on the number of devices. I know they were not talking about Indigo, but for example, suppose I defined my devices in the Insteon Hub for control by Echo, while still using Indigo as I do now. Is there a limit on the number of devices that way?
2. Is there a way around the 27 devices in the plug-in?
3. If I have 2 Echos in different parts of the house, can I define different devices in each?
4. How do you compare using Echo with the plug-in with the Siri solutions I see in these forums? It looks like implementing the Siri integration is a lot more complicated. Am I wrong? One intriguing aspect of the Siri integration is voice control from the Apple watch! Can the Siri and Echo solutions be used in parallel?
Redrocker wrote:Quick question: is there still a 27 device limit on the Echo (I was careful not to blame the plugin). I ask because Alexa found 29 devices, I haven't tested all 29 to see if they indeed all work, but they all show up in the Alexa, app and none are ghosted out. I did send feedback to Amazon a couple of weeks ago about this limitation, but never did hear back. The difference could be because I have a real Hue bridge, maybe? If that limitation is been lifted, I'd have a field day, because I sure have a lot more devices then that! The most impressive and useful uses so far are being able to turn the TV on or off, as well as the stereo. This has got to be the best control device to date, makes an HA nut like me very happy
I tested hoping that it had changed, but alas no. If I allow publishing of 28 devices, the Echo fails to see any devices. If I reduce it to 27, it finds all 27. I expect your Hue hub is making up the difference.
kennybroh wrote:1. The 27 device limit confuses me. From the questions and answers on Amazon's site, people seem to indicate there are no real limits on the number of devices. I know they were not talking about Indigo, but for example, suppose I defined my devices in the Insteon Hub for control by Echo, while still using Indigo as I do now. Is there a limit on the number of devices that way?
The Echo's Hue hub integration apparently imposes the 27 device limit. If we broadcast that there are 28 or more devices available, the Echo fails to discover any devices. If it's 27 or fewer, it finds them all. I expect this is specific to their Hue hub integration, but that's just speculation on my part.
kennybroh wrote:2. Is there a way around the 27 devices in the plug-in?
Not in this plugin because it mimics a Hue hub, and it's the Echo's limitation when talking to a Hue hub. It might be possible for the plugin to mimic multiple Hue hubs, but that would be a non-trivial code change. If one of the 3rd party developers would like to take a crack at it, I'd be more than happy to accept a Github pull request to update the plugin.
kennybroh wrote:3. If I have 2 Echos in different parts of the house, can I define different devices in each?
No. The Echo simply asks on the network what Hue hubs are available and then asks each of them what devices they have. AFAIK there's no way to make it selective.
kennybroh wrote:4. How do you compare using Echo with the plug-in with the Siri solutions I see in these forums? It looks like implementing the Siri integration is a lot more complicated. Am I wrong? One intriguing aspect of the Siri integration is voice control from the Apple watch! Can the Siri and Echo solutions be used in parallel?
You can certainly use both in parallel, so you don't really have to choose. Yes, setting up Homebridge is more complex than using this plugin (though, I expect if someone wanted to spend the time they could make installation and configuration a lot easier). I find using the Echo much more convenient than using Siri, but I don't have a new iPhone that can have Siri always listen (without hitting a button). So, for me and my family, the Echo is hands free and Siri isn't, which makes all the difference. I don't know which I'd prefer if I had a hands-free Siri device.
I have an Insteon hub which I really haven't used for anything yet--I got it thinking I might use it for Apple Watch integration. Am I correct if I defined those remaining devices I still want to control with the Echo in the Insteon hub, that would work? I assume the downside is Indigo is unaware of the changed state of any device controlled that way.
Here's another somewhat off the wall question. How might you use the Echo to change channels in DirecTV on a particular television? If there is no limit on the Insteon, I could obviously create an action for each channel, for each TV but that seems pretty cumbersome. I assume there's no way to prompt Alexa to ask for a variable to complete the task, e.g. Me: "Channel 11," Alexa: "which TV," Me: "kitchen." Just imagining a real "Hal" or "Her" to really do what I want....
Not in this plugin because it mimics a Hue hub, and it's the Echo's limitation when talking to a Hue hub. It might be possible for the plugin to mimic multiple Hue hubs, but that would be a non-trivial code change. If one of the 3rd party developers would like to take a crack at it, I'd be more than happy to accept a Github pull request to update the plugin.
Would there be any real problem with a user duplicating the plugin with a new plugin identifier / name and running two instances? Now that you have the discovery working with shared sockets it seems like this would be possible... ?
Here's another somewhat off the wall question. How might you use the Echo to change channels in DirecTV on a particular television? If there is no limit on the Insteon, I could obviously create an action for each channel, for each TV but that seems pretty cumbersome. I assume there's no way to prompt Alexa to ask for a variable to complete the task, e.g. Me: "Channel 11," Alexa: "which TV," Me: "kitchen." Just imagining a real "Hal" or "Her" to really do what I want....
This particular plugin would not work directly for that, no... I was planning on writing my own Alexa skill to allow full control of everything in Indigo but then started playing around with using Virtual Devices and this likely will get me close enough to delay any further integration until later. For example, I now have a virtual device "Eye Tunes" (only way I could get Alexa to answer to it!) so I can say "Alexa, turn on eye tunes" and it runs the "On" virtual action which I use to play/resume iTunes (and Off pauses it).
Not perfect, but could do a "Alexa, turn on Next Channel" or something to go to your next DirectTV channel. That is probably not convenient, so would have it cycle your favorite 5-6 channels maybe?
I just joined the forum to ask about the failure of my Alexa to Hue Bridge devices (all older X10s) to be seen by Alexa. Just downloaded the latest version of the plug-in, and voila!! Instant success. Thanks so much for all your work on this. So helpful.
RogueProeliator wrote:Would there be any real problem with a user duplicating the plugin with a new plugin identifier / name and running two instances? Now that you have the discovery working with shared sockets it seems like this would be possible... ?
It would require more than just changing the name and ID - I hardcode the HTTP port number that's used to mimic the hue, so you'd have to change that too. But it might work.
kennybroh wrote:Here's another somewhat off the wall question. How might you use the Echo to change channels in DirecTV on a particular television? If there is no limit on the Insteon, I could obviously create an action for each channel, for each TV but that seems pretty cumbersome. I assume there's no way to prompt Alexa to ask for a variable to complete the task, e.g. Me: "Channel 11," Alexa: "which TV," Me: "kitchen." Just imagining a real "Hal" or "Her" to really do what I want....
Aside from Adam's suggestion about using Virtual Devices, which is a good workaround, you should read our blog post about Echo integration - it will give you an idea of what we're looking at for the future.
Just read the blog. I have some thoughts and questions which I want to take some time to collect. But, one really stupid question. I have the Pro version; why are Virtual Devices greyed out in the drop down list?
I deleted most of this, since much of it is covered in my next post, and I have now been working with an Echo for a few days.
But I left this question for Jay, Why wouldn't you do the same level of integration for Siri as for Alexa? At this point, Siri is by far the more ubiquitous voice tool and doesn't require buying additional devices.. Admittedly, having used Alexsa for a few day, it's pretty exciting.
Last edited by kennybroh on Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Update to my prior post. I got my Echo on Saturday evening and have already done a lot with it. As others have said, this is a very exciting and potentially transformational device. I want to use it to control everything in my house, and am already frustrated when I can't. Realistically, that will take a lot of work since I have over 150 devices and over 200 actions. But I find myself unplugging the Echo and taking it from room to room, which means multiple power adapters--and multiple Echos--are in my not too distant future. I can already do a lot of basic things, but I'm thinking a very simple Alexa Skill could open everything up. So I'm asking whether anyone has succeeded in getting a basic Skill to work with Alexa, and if so, if you would share it with me so I can adapt it to see if what I'm thinking will work.
So far I've defined as many basic devices as I can in an Indigo Hub I bought some time ago but really never used. BTW, it's not the pro model but it seems to work just fine. That enables Alexa to control individual Insteon devices without using up the space in the plug in. Mindful of that 27 device limit, at this point I'm only putting those things into the plugin I can't easily or practically do any other way. Which brings me to what this post is about.
I have entertainment systems in multiple rooms--in my case DirecTV DVRs, Sonos players, and Onkyo receivers. Each of those devices can receive many specific commands, and they are the same for that type of device in each room. I've been able to quickly implement basic commands for each of those devices by setting a variable for the room I'm in, and a virtual device for the specific command calls an action which runs a script which sends the command to the right device. based on that variable Once it's set, every command for any room specific device goes to the right one.
Although the room variable can be set in control pages or manually in Indigo Touch, I use Alexa to do it since I want everything to be hands free. But Alexa can't directly communicate any information herself, however, so the only way she can set the Room variable is by brute force: turning on a virtual device for each room, using an action to set the variable. The number of rooms is relatively small, so that works fine for now. I just say, "Alexa, turn Kitchen on."
Once Indigo knows where I am, how do I get Alexa to change the channel, for example? It's one thing to know which DVR to send the channel to, but how do I know what channel to select? In my control pages I only needed actions for channel numbers 0-9, because you can click 1 twice to make 11, and so on. But as responsive as she is, it takes too long to do that with Alexa. So for now, like setting the room variables, I made virtual devices for a few basic channels like CBS, NBC, CNN, ESPN, etc. But DirecTV has 1,000 channels... so somehow I need to get the channel number from Alexa, and pass it to Indigo. If I can do that, I should be able to control almost any hardware device that takes a wide range of variable commands, using a relatively small number of Indigo devices, actions and lines of script.
Without fully understanding Skills, it would seem one simple multi-purpose Skill would solve many problems. "Alexa, Tell [responder] to [command] [desired result ] " "Alexa, tell [My TV] to [Change to Channel] [204]." "Alexa, Tell [My Stereo] to [Set Volume] to [50 percent]." "Alexa, Tell [My Stereo] to [Switch Input] to [Sonos]." "Alexa, tell [My House] [I'm in] [the Kitchen]." "Alexa, Tell [My House] to [Run Scene] [Outside Lights" etc
As I visualize it, the data parsed as the responder, command and desired result would set Indigo variable values, and a "gatekeeper" virtual device would call an action with a high level script to call the appropriate action based on the responder variable. The subsequent actions would read the other variables and send the appropriate command. That way, for example, only one action would be needed to select any tv channel, or issue any specific command to a receiver etc.
If anyone has succeeded in getting a simple Skill to work with Indigo, I'd really appreciate some guidance so I can give this a try.
Last edited by kennybroh on Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
More serious problem. After so happily using the plug in for two days, starting tonight, Alexa stopped recognizing any of my Indigo devices, and they were all grayed out in the app. I've tried everything. I "forgot" all devices in the app; I deleted some of the devices from the plug-in; I stopped the plug in; I restarted Indigo, etc. Every time I run a discovery, all Alexa finds are the Hue lights and the devices connected to the Insteon hub. I use the "discovery" mode from the plug-in before I Alexa starts discovery.
