Fakro Skylights

Posted on
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:26 pm
dduff617 offline
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Fakro Skylights

I have two new Fakro skylights installed and am now launching on the process of control/monitoring of the windows and shades through Indigo.

I'm in the early stages of digging around. Documentation looks to be pretty poor. Looks like things are a bit more complicated than a typical Z-wave device installations I've dealt with. I have Fakro skylights (model FVE) and associated motorized blackout shades. The windows each come with a remote (model ZWP10) and it appears that the Fakro system is setup to use the remote as the primary controller. The windows come from the factory setup so that the accompanying remote is their primary controller.

I presume the steps I would want to take are:
1. Z-wave exclude windows from their respective remotes. This should reset them so that they have no primary controller.
2. Z-wave Include the windows into Indigo.
3. Z-wave Include the shades into Indigo. If I can get this far, I'll be happy!
4. Include the remotes into Indigo (optional step and perhaps not easy, since the remote seems designed to be its own controller and may not provide a way to join an existing network).
5. Associate shades and blinds with one or both remotes.

I thought I'd ask here if anyone has tackled this. I see some a few posts from ~5yrs ago discussing some users having some success with Fakro products, but I'm not sure whether the Z-wave hardware might have evolved and Indigo's Z-wave support certainly has as well.

The shade units seem to have pretty clearly marked buttons including a P button. However for the window units (motors for opening the windows), I'm a bit flummoxed at this point because the docs that come with the windows don't cover inclusion (since these are factory-included with the provided z-wave controller/remote). I honestly can't even be sure I've located where the buttons are - they have two very small holes on their fronts which I think are supposed to used (with a sharp object) to push buttons. Especially without good instructions, I feel like I'm flying blind and it doesn't feel like there's a button inside the hole, nor am I seeing any feedback (LED, beep, etc.) from my attempts to find and push.

Anyone have experiences to share? Thanks in advance.

Posted on
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:02 pm
mclass offline
Posts: 312
Joined: May 13, 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Fakro Skylights

Hi! I was one of the participants in the older thread. I am using Fakro winders on locally made (Australian) aluminium windows controlled by Indigo.

The manual for the winders I am using can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0zw9uxhufg3rp ... l.pdf?dl=0

Not sure if these are the same but may give you a clue!

Mclass


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Posted on
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:50 am
dduff617 offline
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Fakro Skylights

Thanks for the reply.

My unit is different and the buttons/indicators on the front of the unit look different - I'll post a picture when I get a chance.

I would love to find correspondingly detailed instructions for FVE units like the ones you linked to. The only (brief) instructions that actually came with my unit for the shades, it just says "refer to the instructions for the remote". The remote does include some z-wave-related instructions, but has nothing at all specific about how to include/exclude the shades - probably because the pre-include the shades with the remote at the factory and assume that will handle what 99% of people want to do. Also, those instructions are based on the use case where the remote (and not Indigo) is the primary Z-wave controller.

I will try to see if I can figure out how to essentially follow the instructions for your ZWS motor unit on my units and hope that the procedures for mine or at least roughly the same.

Questions: Were you able to add your window-motors as "normal" Z-wave devices in Indigo? Is Indigo the primary controller for your window-motors? Does my plan of attack (at least steps 1-3) seem sensible to you?

Thanks again, Mclass.

Posted on
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:05 pm
mclass offline
Posts: 312
Joined: May 13, 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Fakro Skylights

Were you able to add your window-motors as "normal" Z-wave devices in Indigo?

Yes. They are recognised as "Motor Control Class C" and are supported by Indigo (although I was unable to find them in the supported hardware list)

Is Indigo the primary controller for your window-motors?

Yes. Indigo is the sole controller of the windows. The winders were purchased as "bare" hardware and fitted by my window manufacturer

Does my plan of attack (at least steps 1-3) seem sensible to you?

Yes - providing a means of excluding from the remotes is available. I suspect that a "factory reset" of the actuators (windows and shades) will be required.

I suggest that you should seek manuals/instructions from Fakro before you attempt anything - otherwise you may find yourself without any means of control! Not sure where you are, but I suggest you go direct to Fakro Poland.

Good luck!

Posted on
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:02 pm
dduff617 offline
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Fakro Skylights

Ok I have success and device details to report for Fakro Motorized Skylight (USA version model FVE) and Fakro Motorized Blinds (USA version model SRF-EV), purchased in 2019.

Here are device details:
Indigo Z-Wave Version: 7.4.1
Node ID: 72
Model: Motor Control Class B
Model ID: 00020003
Manufacturer: Fakro
Manufacturer ID: 0085
Protocol Version: 3.83
Application Version: 1.01
Model Definition Version: 0
Library Type: 3
Class Name: Motor Control Class B
Class Hierarchy: 04 : 11 : 06
Command Class Base: 26
Command Versions: 20v1 85v1 26v3 27v1 70v1 71v1 72v1 73v1 5Ev1 77v1 59v1 5Av1 86v1 25v1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: - none -
Multi-Endpoint Classes: - none -
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: routing, beaming
Neighbors: - none -
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[]
Config Values: - none -


Additional details for adding these devices to Indigo:
For me, the window came pre-included to a handheld remote. The shade was not pre-included. I had to exclude the windows from the remote, then add both the windows and the shades to Indigo.

My first attempts to use network exclude/include did not work, but that may have been because I was battling with too many uncertainties and unknowns and adding delays plus some signal unreliability and lack of feedback with network exclude/include made just made it too difficult.

So to make it easier to learn and confirm how things worked, I first tried using exclude/include using the provided remote. Instructions are pretty straightforward, feedback is immediate, and the device is easy to carry up a ladder. This helped me confirm I knew the basics of how to operate both the shades and the window, how to push the appropriate buttons, and how to interpret feedback.

Once I had a better understanding of the devices and their buttons, I took my Z-stick out of my computer and used "local" include/exclude mode to add the units to Indigo. Network include/exclude probably would have worked at this point,, but I can't say for certain. Here are some details I learned for the window-motor units that weren't mentioned in the (sparse) instructions:
  • The lower of the two holes is the one that contains the z-wave "program" button (I'm still not sure what the larger upper hole is for).
  • You will need a small device like a small finish nail or a very small screwdriver to reach in and push the button. Tactile and visual feedback is sparse. At first, I couldn't even tell if I was pushing the button.
  • When you first exclude the device, a red LED will glow inside the unit.
  • After about 15-20 seconds, the red LED will timeout.
  • When pushing the Z-wave program button on the window for include/exclude operations, you need to hold it for about 1 second. - just "tapping" it doesn't work.
  • There's no direct feedback on the unit (such as motor "jog" motion, LED blink, etc.) to provide feedback.
  • Iindigo provides an on (open), off (close) and a %-dim interface which corresponds to opening the window that part of the way between full closed and full open.
  • Indigo does not provide a stop command, though I know the device supports it.

Here are the device details for the Fakro shades (model SRF-EV):
Indigo Z-Wave Version: 7.4.1
Node ID: 73
Model: Motor Control Class C
Model ID: 00040011
Manufacturer: Fakro
Manufacturer ID: 0085
Protocol Version: 4.33
Application Version: 1.01
Model Definition Version: 0
Library Type: 3
Class Name: Motor Control Class C
Class Hierarchy: 04 : 11 : 07
Command Class Base: 26
Command Versions: 20v1 85v1 26v3 27v1 70v1 71v1 72v1 73v1 5Ev1 77v1 59v1 5Av1 86v1 25v1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: - none -
Multi-Endpoint Classes: - none -
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: routing, beaming
Neighbors: - none -
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[]
Config Values: - none -

The shades have a more intuitive Z-wave interface, with two external easy-to-operate buttons on the unit. One button provides manual operation of the shade (rotates between up/stop/down). The other is the P button. Some other hints/tips:
  • The button clearly marked with a "P" is used for Z-wave include/exclude operations.
  • Inclusion/exclusion is performed with a simple tap of the P button. (no need to hold as with the window motor unit)
  • The green light seems to come on and stay on indefinitely when the device is not included in a Z-wave network. Once the device has been included, the green light goes off.
  • Indigo provides only on (open), off (close) and what appears like a %-dim interface, which will open the shade the corresponding part of the way between open and close.
  • Indigo does not provide a STOP command, although I am sure one is supported because the Fakro remote includes a stop button.

In case you were wondering (as I was) what the difference between a Z-wave Motor Class B device and Motor Class C device, class C device supports a go-to-position command, while class B does not. Class C supports report-position-exact command, while Class B does not (supports only report-position-approximate), but does support report-position-endpoints. See this document for details.

Posted on
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:33 pm
dduff617 offline
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Fakro Skylights

Mclass posted in an earlier thread that the Z-wave raw command with payload bytes 0x26, 0x05 will work as a stop command. I have confirmed this works for my windows and skylights as well.

It would be nice if Indigo included "stop" button in the interface for Class B and Class C devices, as I think the stop command is required for these devices.

Posted on
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:11 pm
dduff617 offline
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Fakro Skylights

The Fakro motorized skylights I bought came with a ZWP10 remote unit -as far as I know, when buying Fakro windows in the US, you always get this.

Now that I have my windows and shades added direct to Indigo, I don't especially need the remote to do things like control shades via a trigger or timer, control the windows via a thermostat, etc. However, it still might be useful to put this remote to use, either as a backup manual control for windows/shades or for other control functions.

I found a good "concept of operations" document on this remote on the OpenHab site. This device is a bit complicated since it can serve as a full-fledged Z-wave controller device. For my use in Indigo, I don't want the device to be a controller, but merely a simple remote control device.

First, since I had done experimentation with inclusion/exclusion of various devices, I figured it best to reset the remotes to their factory-default state to eliminate possible one-way links and things. This was done by double-pressing the in/ex button on the back, then pressing the select button on the front in rapid succession.

After resetting, I included the unit into Indigo (as a device). This was done by putting Indigo in inclusion model, then hitting the in/ex button on the back three times. After including, Indigo wants to define/sync with the device. Because the device is battery powered, it does not stay on and listening at all times, so when Indigo tries to talk to the device to sync with it, you need to wake the device up by pressing and holding the select button.

At the end of this process, I now (two) Fakro remotes linked and defined in Indigo.

The device details:
Z-Wave Indigo Device "075 - "Left" Fakro Remote" Z-Wave Properties:
Indigo Z-Wave Version: 7.4.1
Node ID: 75
Model: Portable Remote Controller
Model ID: 00010001
Manufacturer: Fakro
Manufacturer ID: 0085
Protocol Version: 3.83
Application Version: 1.01
Model Definition Version: 0
Library Type: 2
Class Name: Portable Remote Controller
Class Hierarchy: 01 : 01 : 01
Command Class Base: 00
Command Versions: 20v1 84v123 85v1 86v1 72v1 73v1 77v1 59v1 5Av1 5Ev1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: - none -
Multi-Endpoint Classes: - none -
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: beaming, waking
Neighbors: - none -
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[] 4:[] 5:[] 6:[] 7:[] 8:[] 9:[] 10:[] 11:[]
Config Values: - none -

The device is not behaving exactly as I would expect a remote device to behave - specifically, it is not sending any signals to Indigo. I have tried:

- Setting up a z-wave-watcher device for the remote. It doesn't see anything.
- Putting z-wave interface into debug mode. I don't see any activity when I press buttons on the remote.

So I presume this may be because the nature of this device - it may be that unless there is another device associated with a particular button in the remote's configuration, that it won't send anything when a button is pushed. That's different than other Z-wave remote devices I've used.

I'm still looking for a way to make use of this remote in Indigo. Anyone have any tips here?

Posted on
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:29 pm
dduff617 offline
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Status summary

In case anyone is considering purchasing skylights, I wanted to pass along a summary of my experience with Fakro's products.

I felt like I was taking a risk purchasing Fakro-brand products that were less-known and less-available in the US (than Velux, who dominates the market). Getting info or reviews on Fakro's z-wave products was nearly impossible, and there was almost nothing about compatibility with Indigo. Though Fakro does now seem to support the US market, the building supply place had to special order them, which took extra lead-time. I knew I wouldn't be able to assess the z-wave functionality until late in the process, long after it was too late to return them or to switch to a different brand, so I had to stick my neck out financially.

The only thing (minor) that I was not able to get to work (at least not yet) was the remote controls. As of now, I am able to add them as devices in Indigo, but I can't do anything useful with them.

Not being able to use the remotes was a small disappointment - I had had a very positive experience with trying to do something similar with Somfy z-wave remotes that I got with Z-wave-controlled blinds. They were easy to integrate with Indigo and could be used for the blinds or for anything else that I wanted to control from Indigo. The Fakro units seem to use a different z-wave paradigm (where the remote is a z-wave controller). There migth still be some way to get them to work, but I haven't figured it out yet, and there doesn't seem to be much info available.

Overall, I'm quite satisfied. The motorized shades work well. The motorized skylights work well. Using them in Indigo is pretty easy and straightforward, especially if you already have some experience with the basics of Indigo z-wave support. Initial cost was higher than Velux, but suspect that if the costs of full system are added up with the extra modules and things you'd use to connect a Velux system to HA that the costs are comparable or perhaps even favorable for Fakro. The quality of the windows themselves (as reported by my very experienced renovator) is very good.

I really like that in the final system, I do not need any special remotes, nor any extra adapters, controllers, interface modules, wires, power supplies, etc. -- just as I had originally planned, both the shades and the window openers are controlled via KeypadLinc on my bedroom wall. They can also be controlled by Indigo triggers or schedules, obviously.

Posted on
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:11 am
DaveL17 offline
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Posts: 6728
Joined: Aug 20, 2013
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Fakro Skylights

Thanks for the writeup.

You may still be able to get the remotes to work with Indigo with a little bit of effort. If you're able to spot unique commands from the remotes in the form of raw Z-Wave messages, you should be able to create triggers to react to those messages. Does anything register in Indigo at all when you press the buttons on the remote? Try turning on Z-Wave debugging and then cycle through the remote buttons and see what Z-Wave commands come in (you might find the Z-Wave Watcher plugin helpful as well).

AFAIK, Indigo doesn't support secondary controllers, but you may also find the Z-Wave Scene Controller plugin helpful.

I came here to drink milk and kick ass....and I've just finished my milk.

[My Plugins] - [My Forums]

Posted on
Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:05 am
princp offline
Posts: 3
Joined: May 29, 2019

Re: Fakro Skylights

Great to see progress here. I have a Fakro window with blind. The window has worked for a while now,, but I simply cannot get the shade to work - it did until an upgrade of some form or another. It works with the button.

I've excluded and re-included the device successfully which appears to work:
Z-Wave Syncing - started for "Fakro roof blind"
Z-Wave Syncing - retrieved module neighbors list: 17, 22, 23, 24, 30, 43, 48, 49, 50, 53, 55, 62, 64
Z-Wave Syncing - assigning return route to "069 - Fakro roof blind"
Z-Wave Syncing - assigned return route
Z-Wave Syncing - retrieved manufacture and model names: Fakro - 0085, Blind Controller (ARF II) - 00040011
Z-Wave Syncing - retrieved protocol version 4.33, app version 1.01
Z-Wave Syncing - retrieved class hierarchy: Routing Slave : Mulitlevel Switch : Motor Control Class C (04 : 11 : 07, base 26)
Z-Wave Syncing - retrieved command classes: 20v1 26v3 25v1 72v1 86v1 5Ev1 73v1 98v1 77v1 71v1
Z-Wave Syncing - retrieved encrypt commands: - none -
Z-Wave Syncing - retrieved capabilities: routing, beaming, security
Z-Wave Syncing - complete
Z-Wave sent "Fakro roof blind" status request

However, absolutely no response to any commands from the Indigo device. I've also tried raw - 0x26 0x01 #### where #### is between 0x01 (position level 1) and 0x63 (position level 99) per this blog. This work to open/close the window, but not the blind.

Any ideas?

Posted on
Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:54 pm
dduff617 offline
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Fakro Skylights

here's the device details from Indigo for my shade. I've had no problems or issues since I included them a few years ago.

Code: Select all
   Z-Wave                          Indigo Device "MBR South SkyShade" Z-Wave Properties:
Indigo Z-Wave Version: 2023.2.0
Node ID: 73
Model: Blind Controller (ARF II)
Model ID: 00040011
Manufacturer: Fakro
Manufacturer ID: 0085
Protocol Version: 4.33
Application Version: 1.01
Model Definition Version: 0
Library Type: 3
Class Name: Motor Control Class C
Class Hierarchy: 04 : 11 : 07
Command Class Base: 26
Command Versions: 20v1 26v3 25v1 72v1 86v1 5Ev1 5Av1 85v1 59v1 73v1 27v1 70v1 71v1 77v1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: - none -
Multi-Endpoint Classes: - none -
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: routing, beaming
Neighbors: 63, 70, 71, 72, 138
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[]
Config Values: - none -
 


looks to be the same as yours. i can also control mine by sending open/close commands (as on/off) or by setting position from 0-100 (as "brightness" from the Indigo interface).

seems odd that Indigo seems to have included the device and can communicate with the it, but you can't control it. sorry i can't be of more help. possibly a factory reset might help? (i believe this is done by pressing the program button 5 times fast).

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