Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

Posted on
Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:08 pm
AndyVirus offline
Posts: 257
Joined: Mar 18, 2014
Location: Newport Pagnell, UK

Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

Hello and Merry Christmas!

I am hoping that someone with some more knowledge than myself can point me in the right direction (if what i am trying to do is possible)...

Scenario:

I have an inline extract fan which has 3 modes: Off, On and Boost.

Off is obviously no power to the fan
On is 230v AC to L1 (Live)
Boost is 230v AC to L2 (Live)

Only L1 or L2 can be connected at any one time (confirmed with manufacturer)


My original idea was to have a dual relay control the 230v AC to either L1 or L2. This would still work but i want a fail safe of some sort so that it is not possible for have L1 AND L2 connected at the same time.

So what i would like is a way to "switch" between L1 and L2. If L2 has power, L1 instantly disconnects and visa-versa (or L1 can never have power if L2 does)

What I have is a Quibino Flush Relay x 2 and a Vent Axia HR100W.

Any ideas? For now i just have 1 of the relays hooked up to L2 which is fine but interested to know if someone can think of a viable solution for switching loads via a dual relay.
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Posted on
Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:23 am
kw123 offline
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Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

I would not use two unlinked separate relays. The electronics could create a situation due to timing that both outputs are on. Try to find a 3 position relay ( 1 in and 2 out w one off) then we can figure out how to switch this electronically ( i.e. Arduino etc).
Karl


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Posted on
Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:25 am
AndyVirus offline
Posts: 257
Joined: Mar 18, 2014
Location: Newport Pagnell, UK

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

Thanks! I now have something to google! I knew it would be simple, i blame the brandy on the christmas pud...

Posted on
Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:32 am
Shutter offline
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Location: London, UK

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

Please post what you find as I'm wanting to do the same.

Have a fan come on when motion is detected and then boost when the humidity rises. would rather not leave it up to the optional fan built-in detectors.

Simon

Posted on
Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:38 am
howartp offline
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Joined: Jan 09, 2014
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

I suspect a Shutter module (Qubino or Fibaro) would work. Connect L1 to 'Up' and L2 to 'down'.

If I've understood the Qubino guide right, you can set the length of time the relay operates for (ie fully open the shutter) to zero, which assumes there are limit switches stopping the motor at the right point.

You then set the voltage detection that indicates when the motors have stopped (ie limit switches have been hit) to zero, which disables motor voltage detection.

The result should be, the relays only turn off when you tell them to, or when you turn on the other - no shutter module in its right mind will allow you to turn on 'up' and 'down' relays together!


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Posted on
Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:07 am
Comgen offline
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Joined: Dec 18, 2015

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

I am using the Qubino Shutter DC with works sort of. Indigo sees it as a dimmer so value 0 = up , value 100 = down to stop i have to use a value between 1-99. does anyone have any idea how to get indigo to see it correctly i.e up/down/off.

Posted on
Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:46 am
howartp offline
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Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

It will need a device definition by Matt/Jay creating.

Can you edit the device abs hit the submit info button, and also do a define&sync and paste the contents of that process from the log into here.

Matt/Jay will pick both up and create a definition in due course.

Peter


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Posted on
Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:38 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

Indigo doesn't currently have a native shutter device type, which is why it shows as a dimmer. I'd suggest creating Action Groups that send the specific brightness value you need (so one Action Group called "Open", one "Close", etc.), then you can execute the action groups from triggers/schedules or control pages.

Image

Posted on
Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:00 am
AndyVirus offline
Posts: 257
Joined: Mar 18, 2014
Location: Newport Pagnell, UK

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

OK I dont think a Shutter module will work for what i need to do as that directly controls the motor and is not a Single Pole Double Throw relay (with a full cut of power).

So to that end im still searching for a solution. What i have come up with is using the Dual Relay Quibino module (or any other) and rig up a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) relay as per this diagram attached. Can someone with electrical engineering knowledge sanity check what im trying to do in this diagram please. Also do i need a/some flyback diodes in here also?

Currently i am experiencing with just using 1 relay that if i turn the relay off it sometimes ping back on and visa versa.
Attachments
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Posted on
Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:37 am
mlew offline
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Joined: Jan 08, 2016
Location: Lincs UK

Re: Electrical Help Needed - Dual Relay switching

Hi AndyVirus

The drawing you show will work, the other option if you dont want to mess around with logic on the outputs is go with two single pole relays, feed the coil of each relay from one output each then use the n/c contact on the opposite line. So when Q1 energises it turns on R1 and L1 on your fan, when R1 energises the N/C contact opens which blocks any chance of L2 getting power and vice versa.


one last comment dont use the Quibino double relay unit as i have loads of issues with it. for starters you cant control the two relays separately and secondly i have issues turning mine off as seems to have mind of its own!

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