New license model will be expensive

Posted on
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:17 am
davinci offline

New license model will be expensive

I have a system running on Indigo 7.1. License is expired but it is not a problem for now.

If I understand correctly Indigo Server will fail in macOS 10.15 because the server still is 32 Bit software. Something that is known since quite some time, yet Indigo still is 32 Bit.

I don't need new features of Indigo but this essentially means I have to pay 250$ next year to be able to use the software updated to 64 Bit. Maybe I could subscribe for 2-3 years (including catchup). This would cost 180$. Again just for keeping the software running.

I seriously hope I didn't understand this correctly or you will find a solution for those on 7.1. Otherwise I consider this price tag a rip off.

Not sure if everyone is aware of this...

Posted on
Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:54 am
autolog offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

You can leave your Indigo Mac on 10.14 and then you would be OK and continue to run 7.1 :wink:

I hardly think it is a rip-off for the ongoing maintenance of this high quality software - the guys have got to make a living to put food on the table!

I am sure they are putting in a lot of work to convert Indigo to 64bit assuming they haven't got a magic wand. :D

Posted on
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

The cost of the optional subscription which gives you updates (and a reflector) is pretty simple: $59.95 / year after the first included/free year. Each customer, of course, has to decide if they want the subscription and if it is worth the value to them. We have no plans of changing the subscription pricing.

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Posted on
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:02 pm
kw123 offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

That’s about 1 good zwave switch


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Posted on
Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:55 pm
durosity offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

As Matt and Jay are clearly billionaires now I think all future updates for indigo should be free. No.. better than that.. they should pay us for using their software!


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Computer says no.

Posted on
Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:17 pm
kw123 offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

The largest software acquisition ever: IBM to buy Red Hat for $34B....


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Posted on
Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:54 am
davinci offline

Re: New license model will be expensive

Or 250$ at once, right?

Posted on
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:27 am
davinci offline

Re: New license model will be expensive

Ok, so it is clear to me I will pay 60$ a year.

If I would not, then I have to pay 250$ after falling behind catchup.

Thanks for clarification.

Posted on
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:29 am
durosity offline
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New license model will be expensive

lanbrown wrote:
That is what it says. It is far cheaper to just stay current.


Definitely! $60 a year is negligible considering the overall cost of even a fairly small automation system. And if it helps keep the lights on at Indigo HQ then so much the better... gosh just think of the cost of your time having to switch to something like openHab if Indigo ceased to exist, not to mention the increased amount of time you’d need to spend maintaining the system and working around bugs!

Computer says no.

Posted on
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:24 am
Korey offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

I personally think they should be charging at least $100 a year for such great software and support.

Indigo is the least expensive and most crucial part of this "Hobby"

There is no where else you will find such amazing support from the Devs or the Community.

--
Korey

Posted on
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:42 am
dduff617 online
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Re: New license model will be expensive

i hesitate to say how much i would be "willing to pay" for indigo. i have a big investment in indigo continuing to work and work well.

i think IndigoDomotics should charge enough to find the sweet spot in the market such that their revenue (# of licenses * cost per license) is sufficient to cover what they need for the product to a) have solid support and b) to grow and improve going forward so that it remains "viable" as something that can serve as a hub for diverse HA installations. I agree that $100/yr seems in the range of "reasonable" to me. I believe at some point above that, as IndigoDomotics raises the price,, the number of licenses drops off and total revenue eventually curves downward.

on a related topic... i also feel that the Indigo platform/community is on the brink of needing to find a good paid support model for plugins. i've already seen a couple of plugins that started out strong, drew me into using them and relying on them, and then sort of "withered" from lack of support and fell into dis-repair. I'd like it if plugin developers were incented to provide good support and upgrades. There are a few plugins that I'd readily pay $10-20/yr for without reservation.

Posted on
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:20 pm
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

dduff617 wrote:
on a related topic... i also feel that the Indigo platform/community is on the brink of needing to find a good paid support model for plugins. i've already seen a couple of plugins that started out strong, drew me into using them and relying on them, and then sort of "withered" from lack of support and fell into dis-repair. I'd like it if plugin developers were incented to provide good support and upgrades. There are a few plugins that I'd readily pay $10-20/yr for without reservation.


That's a tough subject to tackle. There are a dozen or so seriously active plugin developers, plus the same again (order of magnitude, anyway) that have one or two they work on. But even the most active developer has maybe 6 or so popular plugins. Even at $20/yr/plugin, how many users does it take to make a business case for committing to the plugin as a commercial business? One that would take priority over a real job or family? If the developer is an independent programmer, then maybe they can work that into their commitments. Otherwise? Not really. Of the active plugin developers, I think I'm the only one that's not working at a real job of some kind. I retired almost 11 years ago, before I turned 50. :). But even now, I can't commit to commercial level support. I was out of the country for four weeks in September, and will be again in December. Can't do support or serious development work on those trips.

I've gotten some Paypal donations along the way, and I do appreciate them. Makes me willing to pay for hardware for testing plugins, or paying for online services for the same purpose. Never going to be enough to commit to any kind of SLA though.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
my plugins: http://forums.indigodomo.com/viewforum.php?f=177

Posted on
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm
howartp offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

I agree with FD.

I’m one of the devs with half a dozen plugins, but I’m well aware I’ve not touched them in 9-12 months.

This is due to a £425,000 building scheme at Church which is entirely “my baby”. It’s due to finish yesterday but contractors 5 weeks behind. Final completion (for other reasons) will thus be April and I won’t/can’t touch my plugins until then except for emergencies.

I WILL be back contributing again after that time. But there’s no way I can provide an SLA even with the donations I have received and am grateful for.


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Posted on
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:39 am
dduff617 online
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Re: New license model will be expensive

joe, your comments seem reasonable and you certainly have more experience with plugin development than i do.

however, i suggest "making a living" does not necessarily need to be considered a minimum threshold for revenue from plugin development. to me a world with paid plugins does not mean that all or even most plugins have to be paid; many would continue free. some would be developed and "supported" by distributed teams of cooperating people, where taking revenue would create more problems than it would solve. some plugins might start off free, and aspire to eventually become high-enough quality and with a sufficient number of users to justify switching to paid status in the future. on the other hand, some developers may have no interest in getting into paid dev/support models whatsoever. i think similar models apply for software generally.

i think it is good for the Indigo ecosystem to encourage a developer who wants to go the extra mile to share their work and keep pushing from experiment to proof-of-concept to working software (where some revenue might start to kick in) to something that's really robust, user-friendly, and easy to install and configure (where a plugin might get "buy-in" from 10's to 100's of users and recurring payments from some).

in some cases, payments from a small number of users may represent little more than a token of appreciation or a way to add a degree of connection between developer and their users. in other cases, it may help offset the costs of a developer who might buy some extra gear they can use for testing and development or to refresh their own mac hardware and indigo license. realistically, i suspect only in a small number of cases are we going to be talking about "substantial" income.

i personally would be happy to be a part of an ecosystem that is generating more stuff that's fun and cool but also refined and reliable.

i also like the idea of rewarding a developer who goes the extra mile to perform "upkeep" on work they've completed to keep a plugin working as the platform around it gradually evolves, so i think a recurring payment model (such as annual subscription?) makes more sense than a one-time payment model, and it seems like IndigoDomotics arrived at a similar conclusion at some point over the last couple of years.

if i look at the amount of money i've spent on devices in my home -- thermostats, sprinkler controllers, locks, smoke detectors, motorized shades, receiver, sonos, etc. -- and then i look at the satisfaction i typically get from them, i find that it is often the case that the indigo plugin and the quality thereof plays a big part in determining how much real value i get from an investment in "smart home" stuff. in fact, i find i've almost become "jaded" about new gizmo's and gadgets - to the point where i'm really not up for yet-another-device that has a custom interface or will have yet-another-standalone-app to control it. maybe it does something cool, but if i can't integrate it with my indigo universe, the value is generally pretty low. to be really useful and integrated, it generally has to use a standard protocol (such as z-wave) OR it needs a plugin, or sometimes both. i find there are many cases where i'm thinking that if i could wave a wand and give myself the option to spend more to get more/better plugins, i would do it without hesitation.

Posted on
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:47 am
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: New license model will be expensive

The ecosystem is already in place. Since the advent of the plugin "store", almost all plugins are published via GitHub. So anyone who has an interest can look at the code there, create bug reports and enhancement requests, or fork the code and submit their own modifications. Or non-programmers can create Wiki pages to help document how to use the plugin.

At one time, I even posted a request for help expanding the Wiki for one of my plugins. <crickets>

My "making a living" comment specifically referred to offering up a plugin as a commercial quality supported product. It can be a very high quality product with individual or community development, but commercially supported is another story.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
my plugins: http://forums.indigodomo.com/viewforum.php?f=177

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