IKEA BLINDS

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Posted on
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:39 am
tazswe offline
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 13, 2017

IKEA BLINDS

Beginning of next year IKEA will launcher automatic blinds. They will be affordable and controlled by Zigbee.
https://www.channelnews.com.au/ikea-tip ... rt-blinds/

The big companies are using Zigbee while we are stuck with Z-wave :|

Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:23 am
howartp offline
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Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Re: IKEA BLINDS

Who are you calling big companies?

IKEA are a retail outlet selling their own furniture/etc, not a big Smart Automation company like Aeon/Aeotech/Fibaro.


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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:27 am
jay (support) offline
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Location: Austin, Texas

Re: IKEA BLINDS

tazswe wrote:
The big companies are using Zigbee while we are stuck with Z-wave :|


Yeah, I gotta disagree here. Zigbee still has smallish market penetration in the DIY sector compared to Z-Wave.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:59 am
tazswe offline
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 13, 2017

Re: IKEA BLINDS

howartp wrote:
Who are you calling big companies?

IKEA are a retail outlet selling their own furniture/etc, not a big Smart Automation company like Aeon/Aeotech/Fibaro.


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FIBARO 150 employes

AEON LABS +500 employes

PHILIPS 114000 employes

IKEA 194000 employes

XIAOMI 3rd biggest producer of mobile phones

Fibaro and Aeon Labs was small companies that no one had heard of a couple of years ago. They had big influence on the first wave of companies looking into home automation.

No are we looking at the second wave with companies like Philips, IKEA, Xiamoi, Apple, Samsung.

Lightbulbs are an important piece of the home automation market and they have already choosen zigbee.



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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:02 pm
tazswe offline
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 13, 2017

Re: IKEA BLINDS

jay (support) wrote:
tazswe wrote:
The big companies are using Zigbee while we are stuck with Z-wave :|


Yeah, I gotta disagree here. Zigbee still has smallish market penetration in the DIY sector compared to Z-Wave.


You mean that the turnover of lightbulbs with zigbee is negligible?


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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:13 pm
kw123 offline
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Location: Dallas, TX

Re: IKEA BLINDS

It’s a normal development. Constantly changing. First it was insteon then zwave next zigbi WiFi ..
That’s the cool thing about this area always changing and the winners are not set yet

And the large companies moving in just have market dominance as their advantage not speed.

I looked at ikea and their technology looks interesting but still limited devices. No switches yet only lights and dimmers but they are adding

The future is bright.




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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:14 pm
howartp offline
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Joined: Jan 09, 2014
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Re: IKEA BLINDS

kw123 wrote:
The future is bright.

Pun intended? :-)


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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:22 pm
lanbrown offline
Posts: 526
Joined: Sep 26, 2017

Re: IKEA BLINDS

tazswe wrote:

Lightbulbs are an important piece of the home automation market and they have already choosen zigbee.

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Sure they are, but I'd rather control the switch than individual light bulbs. Guess what, Zigbee isn't free and why keep having to buy bulbs with smarts when you buy the switch and it works with all bulbs on the chain and future bulbs as well.

I view smart bulbs as an interim step before PoE is used. Think about it, PoE is now capable of 100 watts; so that is a lot of lighting power when you look at LED bulbs. On a single cable you have control (Ethernet) and then power PoE. With ZigBee you need both 110 (or 220 for other parts of the world) for power and then Zigbee for control.

The only advantage that having a smart bulb brings is that they are quicker to install than a replacement switch. However, you are looking at $10 to $20 per Zigbee bulb. I have about 26 indoor spotlight bulbs over 10 different circuits. $20 x 26 = $520 if I go with bulbs. A Z-Wave switch is around $40; so $40 x 10 = $400. Not a surprise that replacing a switch is cheaper.

If there is one light in a switch, Zigbee is cheaper. If there are multiple lights on a switch; then Z-wave is typically going to be cheaper.

I personally have no interest in buying smart bulbs; I'd rather control the switch, not the bulb.

Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:24 pm
kw123 offline
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Location: Dallas, TX

Re: IKEA BLINDS

UniFi now has poe lighting
But you need to recable everything.

May be in the next new house I build That’s like not happening anytime soon.

And yes it’s bright


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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:33 pm
lanbrown offline
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Joined: Sep 26, 2017

Re: IKEA BLINDS

New construction will drive a lot of changes. Existing home will need to make do with other technologies. It just isn't practical to rip walls apart to put Ethernet in for PoE lighting.

Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:35 pm
jay (support) offline
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Location: Austin, Texas

Re: IKEA BLINDS

tazswe wrote:
jay (support) wrote:
tazswe wrote:
The big companies are using Zigbee while we are stuck with Z-wave :|


Yeah, I gotta disagree here. Zigbee still has smallish market penetration in the DIY sector compared to Z-Wave.


You mean that the turnover of lightbulbs with zigbee is negligible?


Bulbs with smarts in them have significantly smaller market penetration than switches controlling dumb bulbs. And in the much larger switch/dumb bulb market Zigbee is still playing catchup. Not that some day it won't catch up (we actually hope it does because the APIs are better) but that's not where the market is now, and frankly Zigbee isn't making a lot of progress in that direction especially in the DIY market.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:41 pm
tazswe offline
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 13, 2017

Re: IKEA BLINDS

lanbrown wrote:
tazswe wrote:

Lightbulbs are an important piece of the home automation market and they have already choosen zigbee.

Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk


Sure they are, but I'd rather control the switch than individual light bulbs. Guess what, Zigbee isn't free and why keep having to buy bulbs with smarts when you buy the switch and it works with all bulbs on the chain and future bulbs as well.

I view smart bulbs as an interim step before PoE is used. Think about it, PoE is now capable of 100 watts; so that is a lot of lighting power when you look at LED bulbs. On a single cable you have control (Ethernet) and then power PoE. With ZigBee you need both 110 (or 220 for other parts of the world) for power and then Zigbee for control.

The only advantage that having a smart bulb brings is that they are quicker to install than a replacement switch. However, you are looking at $10 to $20 per Zigbee bulb. I have about 26 indoor spotlight bulbs over 10 different circuits. $20 x 26 = $520 if I go with bulbs. A Z-Wave switch is around $40; so $40 x 10 = $400. Not a surprise that replacing a switch is cheaper.

If there is one light in a switch, Zigbee is cheaper. If there are multiple lights on a switch; then Z-wave is typically going to be cheaper.

I personally have no interest in buying smart bulbs; I'd rather control the switch, not the bulb.


You are an enthusiast with the knowledge how to change a switch and you are not unique on this forum, it’s filled with nerds.
I am the same but we don’t represent the future mass market.
If the mass market (that can’t change a switch )will choose lightbulbs that can handle zigbee a lot of new applications will also choose zigbee because they will focus on the mass market and not a few thousand nerds that are playing with a controller that can’t handle zigbee.


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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:50 pm
tazswe offline
Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 13, 2017

Re: IKEA BLINDS

jay (support) wrote:
tazswe wrote:
jay (support) wrote:
tazswe wrote:
The big companies are using Zigbee while we are stuck with Z-wave :|


Yeah, I gotta disagree here. Zigbee still has smallish market penetration in the DIY sector compared to Z-Wave.


You mean that the turnover of lightbulbs with zigbee is negligible?


Bulbs with smarts in them have significantly smaller market penetration than switches controlling dumb bulbs. And in the much larger switch/dumb bulb market Zigbee is still playing catchup. Not that some day it won't catch up (we actually hope it does because the APIs are better) but that's not where the market is now, and frankly Zigbee isn't making a lot of progress in that direction especially in the DIY market.


Interesting because I would say that market for Philips Hue and IKEA bulbs are more likely 100 than 10 times bigger than the z-wave switch market in Scandinavia.




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Posted on
Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:01 pm
lanbrown offline
Posts: 526
Joined: Sep 26, 2017

Re: IKEA BLINDS

tazswe wrote:
lanbrown wrote:
tazswe wrote:

Lightbulbs are an important piece of the home automation market and they have already choosen zigbee.

Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk


Sure they are, but I'd rather control the switch than individual light bulbs. Guess what, Zigbee isn't free and why keep having to buy bulbs with smarts when you buy the switch and it works with all bulbs on the chain and future bulbs as well.

I view smart bulbs as an interim step before PoE is used. Think about it, PoE is now capable of 100 watts; so that is a lot of lighting power when you look at LED bulbs. On a single cable you have control (Ethernet) and then power PoE. With ZigBee you need both 110 (or 220 for other parts of the world) for power and then Zigbee for control.

The only advantage that having a smart bulb brings is that they are quicker to install than a replacement switch. However, you are looking at $10 to $20 per Zigbee bulb. I have about 26 indoor spotlight bulbs over 10 different circuits. $20 x 26 = $520 if I go with bulbs. A Z-Wave switch is around $40; so $40 x 10 = $400. Not a surprise that replacing a switch is cheaper.

If there is one light in a switch, Zigbee is cheaper. If there are multiple lights on a switch; then Z-wave is typically going to be cheaper.

I personally have no interest in buying smart bulbs; I'd rather control the switch, not the bulb.


You are an enthusiast with the knowledge how to change a switch and you are not unique on this forum, it’s filled with nerds.
I am the same but we don’t represent the future mass market.
If the mass market (that can’t change a switch )will choose lightbulbs that can handle zigbee a lot of new applications will also choose zigbee because they will focus on the mass market and not a few thousand nerds that are playing with a controller that can’t handle zigbee.


Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk


The mass market also most likely will not be using Indigo either. Look at the Mac marketshare. In 2017 it was not even 8%:
Across the year as a whole, Apple increased its worldwide market share from 7.1% to 7.6%, remaining in fourth place behind HP, Lenovo and Dell.


So the mass market will be looking at something that integrates various things; maybe like an alarm system upgrade. Many of those support Z-wave.

Then you will have many of them struggle with HA technologies as they are technologically inept. They can't even support their wireless network. The extent of their troubleshooting capabilities is unplugging the modem and plugging it back in.

True story. a few weeks ago as I was in the electronics section of the store there was a customer asking an employee there if they buy this modem and plug it in they will have wireless Internet service. When the employee asked if they current had Internet service all this person could say is that they have an outlet on a wall. They had no idea if they actually had Internet access or not and thought buying a "router" would grant them Internet access wirelessly. That is your typical consumer.

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