Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

Posted on
Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:15 pm
eric offline
Posts: 37
Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

Has anyone had an issue with the Schlage 469 locks as being unusably erratic and unreliable?

I find that all of the functions work fine for awhile and then there might be some delays locking unlocking. Sometimes codes don't change. Sometimes indigo says the locks are locked when they are not (UNACCEPTABLE!) with no indication anywhere that there is a problem and sometimes for a bit they give a "no Ack" error which then goes away or required a power cycle on the lock to clear. Then sometimes the locks lock and unlock as expected and then fail again.

I have a large Z-wave network (140 ish) and everything works perfectly except the locks. I have reset them many times, removed them, re added the, etc. And there is simply no way to count on them working when i need them to.

Would switching to a different brand lock help? I am not sure if the issue here is the Schlage lock itself (I have 8 of them and all of them exhibit the same problems to a greater or lesser degree), the Lock Manager plugin, Indigo itself or the Z-Stick.

If anyone else has had similar problems this might help me get to the root of the issue. I would be happy (well not happy) to replace all of these locks with August or Kwikset or something if I knew they would actually work reliably, but I don't want to do this if the problem lies with the software.

I had a back and forth with Indigo support (Matt) about this a few months ago and while he was extremely helpful, we never figured out was was going wrong and the problem persists with my locks being insecure and useless.

Thanks.

Posted on
Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:38 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

eric wrote:
If anyone else has had similar problems this might help me get to the root of the issue. I would be happy (well not happy) to replace all of these locks with August or Kwikset or something if I knew they would actually work reliably, but I don't want to do this if the problem lies with the software.


While it's possible, it's pretty unlikely it's an issue with Indigo. I have a KwikSet lock that I've used for years had have had no problems like you describe. I don't have anywhere near the 140 devices you have so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I'm using a Z-Stick series 2 (the older one). Note that the lock manager plugin only manages the codes - it has nothing to do with the normal operation of the lock (lock, unlock, status).

If it were me I'd replace one of them with a different brand and see if that makes any difference. At least then you'd know if it's a Schlage 469 specific issue.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:59 pm
eric offline
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Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

I ordered a Yale YRD226ZW2619. No idea if it permits code changes etc. over z-wave but I’ll see how it works and post the results here.

Posted on
Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:30 am
howartp offline
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Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

Keep us posted.

Posted on
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:13 pm
eric offline
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Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

The Yale lock is like NIGHT AND DAY.

After initial difficulty with encrypted inclusion/syncing (had to walk the laptop up to the lock) the lock functions as it's supposed to.

Overall its operation is more elegant and it makes a little noise to acknowledge a Z-wave command to lock/unlock even if it does not need to operate.

Codes can be changed with lock manager easily.

Beware - this is day 1. I'll see if any of the usual failures happen after a few days.

Posted on
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:02 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

eric wrote:
After initial difficulty with encrypted inclusion/syncing (had to walk the laptop up to the lock)


This may point to the issue with the Schlage - you may have some distance and/or interference issue. Are there other Z-Wave neighbors between the Z-Stick and the lock location?

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:42 am
eric offline
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Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

The lock is right next to two Leviton switches (which have always worked perfectly). There are maybe a dozen nearby devices or more. It’s a very large network.

And I may have spoken too soon on my success with the Yale.

Now when I try to operate the lock I get the message in the log:

“Could not find module for action”

And the lock is nonfunctional. After a day of working normally.

This is a new one. Never seen this one before in my sordid history with Z-wave locks and Indigo.

Posted on
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:21 am
eric offline
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Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

I redid the define and sync and it's working again - Indigo had forgotten which Z-Wave address the lock was assigned to for some reason.

I had done nothing to prompt this.

Posted on
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:50 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

Were there any errors in the Event Log before the "could not find module for action" line? If so, please copy/paste them (and anything else that looks like it could be relevant) into a reply.

Image

Posted on
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:15 am
eric offline
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Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

I’ll look. The thing that preceded it was that com disabled itself.

The error started occurring when I reenabled com.

My garage opener has also stopped working after functioning properly for awhile.

Now it tells me that it’s opened and/or closed but the door does not move at all.

When the door is operated manually the open/close state is reported correctly.

I’ve made no changes to the settings on this. It’s the NGD00Z

This all leads me to believe that there’s something rotten in my Z-stick or how encryption is being handled. Should I swap my Z-stick? Can I copy the settings from my old z-stick so I don’t have to start from scratch?
Last edited by eric on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posted on
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:21 pm
7rdr7 offline
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Joined: Aug 16, 2017

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

I have 2 x Schlage 469 units. There have been several versions (sub-variants) over the years. The latest units I received from Schlage (1-2 years ago) under extended warranty have been working fine on Indigo. I'm using a z-stick Gen5, but only have ~ 70 z-wave devices. If your locks are older units, I would call Schlage support, they are very good with replacing problematic locks. I agree that it sounds like a potential z-wave network issue. The Aeotec z-sticks can be backed up and restored to avoid reprogramming.

Posted on
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:26 pm
eric offline
Posts: 37
Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

My Schlages are all brand new and straight from the factory so it's unlikely they're even a year old. And they work as expected until they don't.

I'm trying a new Z-stick and I've ordered 8 Yale locks. I like the programming on them much better anyway, that you can set your own master PIN and that the user pins can be various lengths. They respond much more reliably to indigo code changes and they make a chime when they are sent a Z-wave command instead of the seemingly dead Schlages.

Also, they talk you through the settings so much more intuitive. Schlage locks are a dud for Z-wave.

Posted on
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:08 am
7rdr7 offline
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Joined: Aug 16, 2017

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

I would agree that the Schlage locks are not as z-wave feature rich as others, but they tend to be much more highly rated as locks (CR ratings for Schlage are in the 70's and Yale in the 30's/40's). In the end I tend toward security. But to each his own ;)

Posted on
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:16 pm
eric offline
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Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

As a followup, the Yales are working reliably in ways that the Schlage locks never did.

They are responsive, reliable and have a much more elegant and usable interface.

When I change codes I can be sure that the codes are actually changing.

I agree about Schlage being a better physical lock. I have always used Schlage - for decades - in non-electronic applications.

But when electronic locks don't actually lock when they are supposed to (but say they are locked), or when you can't remotely delete a code, that's not a good definition of security.

Also, inspecting both locks they seem to be very similarly built. I like the Yale's more tapered bolt - it's more likely to latch when a door is slightly misaligned.

The Schlage motor does seems more powerful than the Yale's but in all other ways I think the Schlage is vastly inferior.

Z-wave aside, two of my Schlage 469s have completely failed - no response at all from the keyboard.

Good riddance.

Posted on
Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:21 am
eric offline
Posts: 37
Joined: Dec 22, 2014

Re: Schlage 469 - Unreliable and Erratic

Update:

After several weeks with eight installed Yales I want to confirm that they work well and are great locks to use with Indigo in my experience.

No comparison with the Schlages which do not work as they are supposed to, are unreliable even without considering Z-wave, and have a poorly designed interface. I tossed them.

In my opinion don’t buy Schlage until they do an overhaul to hardware/software. Buy Yale.

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