Send SCENE ON vs. Brand Specific - Turn On KeypadLinc

Posted on
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:01 am
HEGarrard offline
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Joined: Sep 09, 2014

Send SCENE ON vs. Brand Specific - Turn On KeypadLinc

Scene ON vs Brand Specific - Insteon - Turn On Single KeypadLinc Button

I have some triggers set up where I want specific buttons on an eight-button Inseton Keypad to be either on or off.

I find that if I use the Brand Specific option using Turn On Single Keypad Link Button (or Off), I get an error - error "XX KEYPAD" keypad button 4 on; send failed (no acknowledgment). There are four specific buttons on this keypa; I want two to be ON and two to be OFF, depending on the trigger. It seems that the method of "Turn On Single KeypadLinc Button" fails often. However, If I use SCENE On or SCENE Off - the button lights turn on or off without error.

Any ideas why the "Turn On Single KeypadLinc Button" fails?
Am I trying to use the function in a manner it was not intended to be used?

FYI ... I thought that the keypad was failing, so I changed it out and I still experience the problem with the new keypad.

Thank you!

Posted on
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:55 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Send SCENE ON vs. Brand Specific - Turn On KeypadLinc

Unfortunately, Insteon didn't implement direct control of buttons, but rather made a single command to set the state of all buttons at once. Same for getting the state of all buttons. So, in order to implement the functionality to set an individual button while leaving the rest in whatever state they may be in, we had to first query the kpl to get all button states, then specifically set them all back the way they were except the one you want to change. It's hugely inefficient given the amount of commands flying around and on marginal networks (apparently like yours) can cause timeouts like you're seeing. If, however, you know exactly how you want all of the buttons to be set (as with a Scene command), then it's only a single command (and perhaps without an acknowledgment) to the device which has a much better chance of success.

So, in summary: setting a single button is network intensive. Your network appears to already be somewhat marginal, so the extra commands necessary cause timeouts. Insteon is terrible in terms of handling timeouts, so you see the failures.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:29 pm
HEGarrard offline
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Joined: Sep 09, 2014

Re: Send SCENE ON vs. Brand Specific - Turn On KeypadLinc

Jay -

Thank you very much for the information. I will definetly keep this in mind in the future!

Harold

Posted on
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:53 pm
HEGarrard offline
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Re: Send SCENE ON vs. Brand Specific - Turn On KeypadLinc

JAY,

I should have followed up on one of your comments ...
When you say that it appears I have a "marginal network" - what does that imply and is there a way to "test" the network or remedy the issues?
I generally do not have that many errors occurring.

Thanks!

Harold

Posted on
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:21 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Send SCENE ON vs. Brand Specific - Turn On KeypadLinc

When you say that it appears I have a "marginal network" - what does that imply and is there a way to "test" the network or remedy the issues?
I generally do not have that many errors occurring.


Insteon networks that have lots of collisions (most often due to signal noise) will exhibit the behavior you're seeing: things that require more intense/frequent communication will more often cause no ack failures. So if what you're normally doing is just straight-forward commands (turn on, etc) then you may not notice. But when more complex things need to happen (syncing, using the Turn On button, etc) you will likely notice more no acks.

One thing you can try: factory reset then resync the KeypadLinc in question. It might be that it's in an odd/bad state such that it's taking longer than normal to do it's work. That can happen if the device's link database is corrupt in some way.

You can try the 3rd party Survey plugin to see if it shows any issues. Also, check the signal troubleshooting page for tips on dealing with signal noise/issues.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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