Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:03 am
bbruck offline
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Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

I've been using Indigo with a variety of Insteon and Hue devices for a number of years, and I'm still running into a Wife Approval Factor (WAF) problem:

The fam (wife and teenager) are fine with smart wall switches. They turn on and off on a schedule, but more importantly, they can turn them on and off manually by flipping the switch.

However, we also have lamps in the house. One of my goals is not to have huge electric bills, and folks leave the lights on, so I have used a variety of smart bulbs and lamp controllers (e.g. Insteon LampLincs) for these.

Invariably, if they see that a lamp is on (perhaps the foyer lamp at 25% for ambience from sunset to bedtime), they will randomly turn it off - or not. Thus, the ambience scene no longer works because the lamp has been turned off manually.

Similarly, if they want a lamp turned on, they will flip the switch, and sometimes (a) it must be flipped on/off a couple times, or (b) it just doesn't turn on (not sure why, perhaps they are older lamplincs?) In any case, anything other than a simple "flip the switch once and it should turn on if it's currently off" brings a very negative WAF.

Do any of the rest of you have these two issues? Any technological ways to ensure that the smart house works in a standard way for the non-smart-house-enabled residents?

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:11 am
Different Computers offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

All I can suggest is to look closely at how you're doing automation. If your automations successfully anticipate other residents' needs, they won't ever need to touch switches.

Alternately, maybe Insteon multi-button scene controllers to control the lamps? Wall mounted or even hard wired (they make those, right?) to make them "like" regular switches.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:29 am
rehafer offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

Short of taking the lamp apart and installing a Micro dimmer inside; I’ve mounted a 1-unit RemoteLinc on the wall with the bracket that Smarthome sells and cover plate that matches the decor. If you put it in a more convenient spot, you can get others to use it. Just remember to recharge it, things that stop working for no apparent reason produce negative WAF.


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Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:46 am
siclark offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

I had the same problems and have resorted to using Flic buttons for turning lamps on and off that have hue bulbs in them. The Flic button is stuck next to the lamp.
I have a pi running that spots the hue press and then activates trigger in indigo for the hue bulb. Works very quickly and advantage now my wife can turn all lamps out in bedroom with a double click of the button.

But for most I use zwave sockets and hide the switch on the cord and rely on automation and telling them not to play with the lights!!

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:04 am
bbruck offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

Sheesh - a flic button seems to be perfect!!! (I've also mounted two insteon mini-switches in the house, and that's gotten good press, but a small button next to or attached to the lamp would be perfect!!!

My only concern is that I don't think my 2009 iMac has Bluetooth 4 - not sure if that's needed or not...

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:14 am
siclark offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

Yes they are handily small compared to other zwave remotes.
Your iMac probably won't but a pi zero probably works better with better reception and you can place it more optimally.

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:34 am
Different Computers offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

You don't need a Pi if your Indigo Mac is in range of the lights--and the range is pretty good with the Flic buttons. You just need the HaxWithFlic app. Works with 10.11 even.

Oh, and you can add BT 4 with a cheap dongle.
Last edited by Different Computers on Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:35 am
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

The only real solution to automating anything that's connected to a wall switch is to automate the switch, not the lamp (or bulb). Anytime you have a mechanical switch connected to an automated load you're going to have problems.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
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Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:24 am
bbruck offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

I agree. That's why pretty much all my wall switches are smart switches. My issue is with lamps that are plugged into a wall outlet.

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:29 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

I follow a general rule: every light has a switch/button in-wall (or on-wall) that will manually operate it. Some loads (those only for accent lighting) may be controlled as a group (i.e. I have 4 hue strips as accent lights above cabinets and in the kick plate which all turn on/off together) but even in this instance I make sure I have a manual button in the room to control them (no matter how automated the on/off is). I use Insteon KeypadLincs for this purpose but there are alternatives.

By doing this you make it much more intuitive for others in the house. For other permanent residents, they will quickly "learn" to control said lights via the in-wall switch (and not at the lamp when the lamp has it's own on/off switch). For things that are most commonly controlled manually, I make sure that there is a full-sized switch (again, what people, especially guests, expect). I put other less-used lights on KeypadLinc buttons (the advantage to the KeypadLinc is that you can get custom engraved buttons so as to help people understand what each button does). I have 5 KeypadLincs throughout the house that are used for those type of things (I have another 4 that are dedicated ceiling fan controllers).

I've just recently decided to put some Hue bulbs in the light on the wall outside of the garage door because I wanted to alter the color for various holidays/seasons. This required some thought because it's connected serially with the can above the front entry way - so you can't switch one without switching the other. There is a SwitchLinc On/Off switch that controls them. The solution I came up with is basically a trigger that sets the Hue Bulbs appropriately when the SwitchLinc turns on (I added a slight delay so as to allow the Hub bulb time to connect to the Hue hub). If the Hub bulb (or hub) just remembered the bulb state the last time it was on it would have been much easier, but it doesn't so I had to do some fun trickeration to get that to work.

So, to reiterate my guiding principle: every light should have an in (or on) wall switch/button that operates it (often coordinated through Indigo). Nobody should ever need to manually operate a standalone lamp (except the bedside lamps in the guest rooms which are not automated in any way). Easy to learn for residents, easy to intuit for guests.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

bbruck wrote:
I agree. That's why pretty much all my wall switches are smart switches. My issue is with lamps that are plugged into a wall outlet.


I thought you were talking about lamps controlled by wall switches (the dreaded half-hot outlet). But you're talking about using the switch on the lamp itself? If it's one of those turn knobs on the lamp, you could take the knob off.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
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Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:48 am
siclark offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

jay (support) wrote:
I

So, to reiterate my guiding principle: every light should have an in (or on) wall switch/button that operates it (often coordinated through Indigo). Nobody should ever need to manually operate a standalone lamp (except the bedside lamps in the guest rooms which are not automated in any way). Easy to learn for residents, easy to intuit for guests.


It' actually the bedside lamps where I use the Flic buttons as I want hue bulbs in them to change colour between morning and bedtime. How do you automate turning them off when we go to bed at different times each night?

Also the Flic buttons are reachable from bed rather than reaching for zwave wall socket. In the living room I do have light switches connected to 2nd inputs on fibaro dimmer that are associated with lamps allowing people to turn them on and off with out going to the lamp itself.

I put a hue into outside lights for Halloween for same reason as you but then got myself in a mess with automating that and the switch so have reverted to normal bulb for non holiday use.

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:50 am
siclark offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

Different Computers wrote:

Oh, and you can add BT 4 with a cheap dongle.

I tried that on an old Mac mini and it didn't recognise it. Might try again on my new one. Removing the need for a pi would be good. Once i worked out how to restart after it lost network connection it's pretty solid but any simplification is better.

I thought I read that Mac in built Bluetooth range wasn't that great? A dongle would obviously be different.

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:18 am
bbruck offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

jay (support) wrote:
I follow a general rule: every light has a switch/button in-wall (or on-wall) that will manually operate it. Some loads (those only for accent lighting) may be controlled as a group (i.e. I have 4 hue strips as accent lights above cabinets and in the kick plate which all turn on/off together) but even in this instance I make sure I have a manual button in the room to control them (no matter how automated the on/off is).


Matt that's worth gold!

Posted on
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:19 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Smart Bulbs, Lamp Controllers, and the dreaded WAF

siclark wrote:
How do you automate turning them off when we go to bed at different times each night?


As I said, in guest bedrooms I don't - there is no automation on those. In the master, I have a 4 button RemoteLinc mini that's attached to the headboard of the bed. The bedside lamps on each side are attached through LampLincs. The outside buttons (left and right) are directly linked via Insteon links to the appropriate table lamplinc so they can be individually controlled while in bed. There is also a SwitchLinc beside the door that works them both (again via Insteon links) together so when you walk in to the room you can turn them on. (The middle buttons on the mini remote operate the ceiling fan). Something similar could be done for the other bedrooms if I should ever need that.

siclark wrote:
Also the Flic buttons are reachable from bed rather than reaching for zwave wall socket.


Yep, this is basically the same as what I did.

siclark wrote:
I put a hue into outside lights for Halloween for same reason as you but then got myself in a mess with automating that and the switch so have reverted to normal bulb for non holiday use.


In my copious free time, I want to write up a blog post on how I'm doing it so hopefully it can be used as a recipe for others. It's somewhat complex, but once it's running I think it's pretty much fire and forget.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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