Telling if a given camera will be compatible w/Control Pages

How do I do it?

In my previous setup my cameras HAD to have MJPEG capability. Control Pages don't support them. But I don't know what I should be looking for in order to be sure a given camera works with Control Pages.

I know it can't require a plugin, but apparently just being able to get the raw image at a URL isn't good enough, unfortunately. So what is it that Indigo must have/must not have in order to display a camera image on a control page?

If the camera supports sending a "snapshot" (ie still image in jpg, cgi, or png format) to a web browser, it can be put into a refreshing url in a control page. If you can log into the camera from safari or chrome or explorer and find an option to get a still image to come up in the browser, you can copy/paste the address from the server to indigo... if you have to supply a username and password to get to it, you may have to edit the address (usually beginning with https://...) into https://username:password@...) or append something like &usr=username&pwd=password to it. If you paste the address from the web browser into text edit and then try adding the security info and pasting the result back into the browser after you close and reopen it, you can be sure it works before trying it in Indigo.

[matt (support)]

John's reply is accurate, but I'll add that what a lot of people do (myself included) is use the excellent Security Spy software for interfacing with cameras. It has its own built-in Web server and can serve static images of any requested dimension from any camera that it supports (and it supports a lot of them). So Security Spy for me handles video motion detection (and trigger Indigo via the Cynical security spy plugin), capturing videos to my Mac, and serving static JPEG images to Indigo for Control Pages.

SecuritySpy would simplify things.

But I wonder if anyone has tried EvoCam, which is LOTS cheaper (especially if you have many cameras) and has explicit support for iSights.

[matt (support)]

I originally used EvoCam but ended up switching to SecuritySpy. At the time, if I remember correctly, the switch was because SS was more adept at configuring and setting up multiple cameras. That was a very long time ago though, so I'm not sure how the two products compare now.

You can obtain a snapshot image that will work from virtually every IP camera out there - but sometimes the URLs are somewhat hidden and not published. Remind us again (I think you said somewhere) which cameras you have? Note that, depending on what you are using to view (Android, web browser, etc.) you may be able to put a refreshing snapshot image on the control page and click to view the actual streaming video (the click will open in web browser or on phone, not within the control page itself, but still works fine!)

I have a mixed bag of cameras, some of which I've figured out how to get working with control pages (Axis 215 PTZ & Foscam C1) and I also am using an iOS app that turns old iPhones into webcams. These provide MJPEG streams apparently, and there doesn't seem to be any way to change that to something a Control Page will display.

I could potentially use old iSight external cams as well, or the built in iSight on an iMac I have.

But I was mostly asking so I could tell whether some random future amazon or woot deal was on a camera that I could use. It was easy to shop when I knew I could just look for "MJPEG" but it's harder when I have to look for "snapshot" or "not MJPEG."

Thanks for the advice though!

EvoCam looks like a bargain, but the plugin for SecuritySpy is very compelling. Going to be a tough call!

EvoCam looks like a bargain, but the plugin for SecuritySpy is very compelling. Going to be a tough call!

I considered both of those and the price of the license for SecuritySpy (over $450) was too much for just a license; I went with a NVR instead so that I have a separate piece of hardware doing all recording (EvoCam was using more resources than I would like on my HA machine). I'm extremely happy with that approach - now I can save around 6 full days of full time recording (it records full time and just marks motion as events) of 15 cameras. If I wanted more it is a simple matter of installing another hard drive (mine holds up to 5) to get additional days.

You lose some simplicity of integration with Indigo (have to interface motion events to Indigo via email, network or alarm-circuit closing) but you gain an independence of hardware and a separation of duties in terms of loading down the system.

[jay (support)]

You lose some simplicity of integration with Indigo (have to interface motion events to Indigo via email, network or alarm-circuit closing) but you gain an independence of hardware and a separation of duties in terms of loading down the system.

Just curious, how do you view camera images on control pages?

You lose some simplicity of integration with Indigo (have to interface motion events to Indigo via email, network or alarm-circuit closing) but you gain an independence of hardware and a separation of duties in terms of loading down the system.

Just curious, how do you view camera images on control pages?

Just jumping in here, but we went with mostly (4 at present) Ubiquiti cameras, and they give away a free Linux (and windows version that we don't use) NVR software package that we run on an old and slow mac mini. tied into the old terabyte raid box that we replaced with a bigger one a couple of years back. The Ubiquiti Unifi NVR has the capability of serving up either static images to Indigo or RTSP video feeds to VLC Streamer, as well as recorded images through a web browser. The two non ubiquiti cameras we have out there don't have recording capability, so they are relegated to posting live views of the dogs and the wildlife feeder....

We did run EvoCam for a while but it really choked the system, and the cost of SecuritySpy put it out of reach... The ubiquiti system works for nothing but the cost of the hardware, and the fact that the Unifi lets the cameras do most of the rendering allows it to run on very low capability old hardware.

Just curious, how do you view camera images on control pages?

I have two options - my NVR provides a snapshot URL that will return a JPG image and then of course some of the cameras have a direct snapshot pull. What I ended up doing is getting the analog camera images from the NVR (technically it is a hybrid DVR and NVR) and then switched the IP cameras over to pull the image straight from them just to save a "hop".

Then on the images on the control page I put a client link to the url for the RTSP feed for the channel. Never tried it in Indigo Touch (not sure what it would do) but on web pages it will load up whatever RTSP handler you have (of course, may have to authorize it to run the first time, depending on browser/system). This is usually a separate program window such as VLC or the Video app on your mobile device. Domotics Pad will recognize the RTSP link and display it within the app natively (in a new screen not inline of the control page).

Adam

Adam,

Which NVR are you running?

One 'caution'.... something that I'm re-doing now.... I had too many apps and control pages and devices all looking at cameras. I stumbled on a thread somewhere which explains why I may have lag times on stuff and why my older cameras will sometimes restart magically.... So now I run as many cameras through the NVR and have everything else look at the NVR.

My setup (as of today... it's an evolving process)
Amcrest 8CH POE NVR (FYI, don't waste your money on the POE version.... it dumps all 8 cameras on a different sub-net then you have to go through the NVR to do any camera tuning). So now I have a POE switch sitting on top of the NVR.

NVR Just records, doesn't do anything else.

Running Sighthound on my HA computer. Using this in conjunction because it has much better video analytics and it can perform alerts that indigo can see. (Run Command) which I use to run a super small applescript app that updates indigo variables. So, I can make a separate app for every rule I set up in Sighthound. (Someone entering the driveway, someone leaving the driveway, etc.) I still let it do some recording, but at really low VGA quality. Just good enough that I can pull up a quick video from my phone with the Sighthound app and take a look.

Personally, I would love a physical NVR that could some how talk to indigo.... but I haven't found any / figured out how. Maybe an NVR with an alarm output for each camera channel going to separate zones on the DSC panel... but that would still only give me one type of notification pr. camera without the video analytic quality of sighthound.

Some NVR's have "Alarm Center" functionality.... but I can't even find any Mac OS X alarm center software that could possibly be picked apart to incorporate with indigo.

A future request for our indigo gurus in Austin.... dynamic control page. I'm doing a huge work around to get camera images to change on a control page.... Let a refreshing image URL be a variable?

To the original question.... I have used MPEG and the newer H264 on pages without any problems. Depending on manufacturer.... it can be trial an error getting the right .jpg URL for a control page.

Which NVR are you running?

I'm running one of the 32-channel Federal Hybrids (supports 16 analog and 16 IP cameras... had to have legacy support) from Security Camera King. It has alarm outputs and one day I want to get those integrated, most likely with some kind of multi-input board and a plugin as there are several options available there. There are multiple alarm events tracked in the NVR, but only a single alarm output per zone that you define. I would really only care about motion anyway, though.

NVR Just records, doesn't do anything else.

Mine too - the cameras actually do the motion and trigger the motion recording on the NVR; I actually have continuous record and it highlights motion events. One nice thing about a dedicated NVR is ability to record and store a LOT more data than normally would be possible on a desktop-computer based program. I log ~4 days of continuous video on 14 cameras and have room for 3 or 4 additional hard drives if I want more cameras or longer storage.

Some NVR's have "Alarm Center" functionality.... but I can't even find any Mac OS X alarm center software that could possibly be picked apart to incorporate with indigo.

I read something about that on mine, but never found any software to run to receive events. Are there ANY open source ones (or heck, not) even for Linux or Windows based?

A future request for our indigo gurus in Austin.... dynamic control page. I'm doing a huge work around to get camera images to change on a control page.... Let a refreshing image URL be a variable?

That's on their list... one way to do it "relatively" easy is to have a single refreshing image... then use a script in conjunction with a variable to refresh/copy the image over.

Example, I wrote an Image Downloader plugin that grabs all of my thumbnails from the NVR every few seconds; (Note, I do this so that I don't have a ton of refreshing images on different devices all hitting the NVR... one plugin downloads all and control pages point to the file on the Mac). Anyway, on large control pages I show all the thumbnails and you can click to view the RTSP feed.

The dynamic-ness comes into effect on a small device. Instead of duplicating the control page for each possible image, selecting the name to view sets a variable. Then every time the download script / plugin runs, the image from the variable is copied into the "CurrentView.png" type image -- which is what the Control Page refreshes. The script to copy it over also can run when the variable changes so you get the immediate change.

I read something about that on mine, but never found any software to run to receive events. Are there ANY open source ones (or heck, not) even for Linux or Windows based?

Haven't found any open source and every one I have seen say's stuff like "contact us for a quote" = super expensive. But they are assuming you will be monitoring a ton of folks and making a bunch of money in the process.... not a HA Hobbyist tinkering. But who knows, maybe they will send you something.
http://www.securitysoftware.com/demos.asp
http://www.dicecorp.com/industries/#guard
http://www.spok.com/solutions/alarm-monitoring
http://www.alcensoft.com
http://www.selectcall.ca/node/10.html

My NVR has Zero documentation on how the network alarm center thing works, what the protocol is, etc. Even if I got something to listen to it, I don't know what the NVR will have to say (not sure if it's worth the effort)

I wouldn't trigger an event off camera pixel based motion. (don't need to automate lights or notifications every time a bug humps one of my cameras).

Example, I wrote an Image Downloader plugin

That's not on your plugin page.... keep the good stuff for yourself?

I've attacked this in two ways.
1) apple script that captures an image based off an event.... camera motion, door open, etc and tie that to a camera. That image is continually being overwritten whenever an event happens. (So I get an alert and I don't have to figure out which camera is in that area and poke around to find the image.... it should be there already.) Downside, it doesn't always capture the "thing" that created the event. So I'll have a snapshot of my office door cracked open, but no idea which kid of mine opened it. I tried a page with multiple thumbnails (trigger event would capture 5 images, 1 pr second... but that ended up being so much scripting and so much room for error and making small tweaks required a ton of re-scripting.
2) (still working on this one). Trigger based apple script that updates a safari page on the HA computer. The HA computer is running "remote site" which allows the desktop to be viewed as an IP camera. I can then put that image on a control page. Motion detector pics up on the driveway, applescript tells safari to open the video stream of the driveway camera. Then it can be a small image on a general home control screen and I can click on it to get a bigger version of what is currently going on without having to navigate to the camera I want. <-- if any of that made any sense.

multi-input board

I've been using the DSC plugin with envisalink.... it has been rock solid. I upgraded to a 64 zone and added some zone extender boards which is a pretty inexpensive way to do it ($40 every time I add 8 new hardwired zones) and it cuts down on insteon traffic. I haven't tied my CCTV to it, but my NVR only has 3 alarm outs for 8 cameras. "one of your cameras detected motion" = worthless information IMO.