DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

Posted on
Tue May 09, 2017 10:53 am
spiv offline
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DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

Today Amazon announced the new Alexa Echo Show - an Amazon Echo with a 7-inch touchscreen for $229 and delivery June 28, 2017.

It's a full Amazon Echo with the addition of a video screen and Amazon calling services it can be used as a telephone and/or Skype type device.

It can also do "video skills" like seeing your shopping list, watching YouTube videos, monitoring security camera feeds, and more.

I don't know any of the technical details on creating 3rd party "video or app skills", but having a full Indigo Touch style DomoPad user interface on this would be awesome!

A lot of these Echo Show's will end up in the kitchen or family room - a natural location for touch-based virtual control panel.

From the photo, it looks the device is wedge-shaped in back, so I don't know if will have any wall-mounting options, but that would really put some pressure on the high priced Crestron proprietary wall panels if it did!

FYI - Amazon always has severe shortage of inventory when it comes to their own hardware. In the past, one had to wait months, not just weeks, to get the Echo when it initially sold out and again later when the Dot sold out.

YMMV - But I would suggest pre-ordering one TODAY even if you are not sure. You can always cancel before delivery and Amazon has liberal return policy too so it is low risk to make sure you have one and not waiting months and months after it becomes another big hit (or "if" it does).

Posted on
Tue May 09, 2017 3:03 pm
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

First off, DomoPad won't ever run on there as it doesn't run Android... but as to a DomoPad-like interface, it isn't likely to happen for a while for two main reasons -- first, Amazon is still saying that voice must be the primary interface and has hinted that the available GUI options will be limited. Of course, things are always subject to change. Secondly, nothing at all has changed between the Show and the standard Echo Skills -- the same limitations that Jay mentioned that stop it from having a full-on integration are still there.

I won't speak for Matt/Jay but I am sure that if they are able to do a better Alexa integration in the future that the Show would at least get some consideration during their development. Or maybe that will be my task if Terry gets his way. LOL j/k Terry.

FWIW, I am more inclined to do a Google Assistant / Home integration than Amazon as I like that product better and am more invested in its ecosystem. I don't especially like my Echo, not that I don't like it, just no particular love for me. The show is a bit more interesting, I will say.

Adam

Posted on
Tue May 09, 2017 3:27 pm
spiv offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

10 million echos slteady installed

Not sure about the technical issues, but Plex, Logitech Harmony, Simple Control and many others have working integrations with Alexa for home automation
Last edited by spiv on Wed May 10, 2017 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posted on
Tue May 09, 2017 3:34 pm
roussell offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

As soon as Adam integrates Google Assistant into DomoPad, a $49 Fire 7 will make this obsolete. Well Adam??? ;-)


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Posted on
Tue May 09, 2017 3:43 pm
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

Not sure about the technical issues, but Plex, Logitech Harmony, Simple Control and many others have working integrations with Slexa for home automation

And all these are cloud based services for the integration or have local control hard coded into Alexa. This is older but most of the restrictions referenced remain... http://www.indigodomo.com/blog/2015/10/28/amazon-echo-and-indigo/.

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 2:30 am
spiv offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

I don't want to start a flame, but if all the integrations with Alexa require cloud back-ends, what's wrong with that?

I have a really good client with a legacy (my description) Insteon and iSY99 installation. I was about to switch them over to Indigo, but iSY99 has a direct integration with Alexa and they are so happy with Alexa they are going forward adding the iSY99 Alexa integration instead:

"The ISY provides both a skill and exposure of Connected Home devices, which covers all the bases. For example, Amazon’s Connected Devices integration has some limitations – for example, you can ask it to turn lights on or off, but can’t ask it to natively control the thermostat). But the skill provided for the ISY (the “invocation name” is pronounced “izzy”) has a larger vocabulary (called “utterances“) allowing a bit more flexibility...."

Indigo should add a cloud back-end and do the same level of integration.

Since Voice Control is an option, and is in parallel to direct/local control, I really don't see a problem with the cloud dependencies.

Consumers want choice. When Alexa goes down (which it does), there are other controls that still work, but Alexa is so damn useful and voice control is so natural that I have many friends and family members who would never touch any home automation (that we have installed) but love using Alexa voice commands.

Indigo already runs a (small) cloud service for the Indigo Reflector. Including that in the new subscription pricing has been a positive - I don't bother with VPN or other workarounds because the Reflector works well and is "native". We need the same thing for Alexa voice integration.

Oh well, I guess we need to lower our expectations - like hoping we see Indigo Touch upgraded BEFORE iOS 11 stops running 32-bit apps instead of just the nasty warnings. Hoping for something that is 64-bit before the upcoming beta (next month at WWDC 2017) is probably wishful dreaming.

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 7:08 am
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

I don't want to start a flame, but if all the integrations with Alexa require cloud back-ends, what's wrong with that?

To sum it up, right now Indigo's servers have no idea whatsoever how to authenticate against your Indigo installation; and that is required for any cloud-based service that needs to communicate commands back. The other cloud-based services that you mention all require that you have your username and password from their website (service) stored with them; Indigo does not. If you read that link that I referenced where Jay explains the issues, he says it quite clearly:
While we believe all of this is doable, it’s not something that we can do quickly, nor do we want to. We want to take the time to make sure we understand all the security implications so that we can make the experience as safe and secure for users as possible.

Creating a service to securely implement this is not trivial -- and I don't think anyone wants them to do an insecure installation! Add on Indigo client/server, users clamoring for XYZ feature, Indigo Touch, etc. That's a lot.

Hopefully it will indeed make it to the top of the list at some point - I'm personally all for them creating an OAuth service for Indigo. That would allow many devices (Echo, Google Home/Assistant, etc.) to tie in and open more integration options.

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 7:45 am
Different Computers offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

spiv wrote:
Indigo should add a cloud back-end and do the same level of integration.


As someone who suffers from 10Mbps DSL as a speed limit (.8Mbps upstream!) and whose DSL is only about 95% reliable, I hope Perceptive resources aren't devoted to this. I also tried living with cloud based SmartThings for a year and just plain hated it.

Then again, I would never use Google's HA or Amazon's Alexa services even if I had 99.999% ISP uptime and 100 Mbps upstream. I don't want to be the product.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 8:42 am
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

As someone who suffers from 10Mbps DSL as a speed limit (.8Mbps upstream!) and whose DSL is only about 95% reliable, I hope Perceptive resources aren't devoted to this. I also tried living with cloud based SmartThings for a year and just plain hated it.

I think that you are missing the point of the cloud integration that we are talking about -- this is simply an additional point of integration, not the controller such as with SmartThings and other cloud based services. This is less a "cloud-based service" and more of an additional "Indigo integration point" which allows access back into the Indigo system running at your house. If you didn't utilize devices which require it, it wouldn't affect you any more than the Z-Wave interface affects INSTEON-only users.

Then again, I would never use Google's HA or Amazon's Alexa services even if I had 99.999% ISP uptime and 100 Mbps upstream. I don't want to be the product.

Obvious flame-bait aside, that is simply a person decision. This isn't directed at you specifically, but it amazes me how many people that say that about a Google or Amazon turn around and use Facebook, which collects much more detailed and personal data than anyone else. Anyone who has ever used Facebook's marketing / advertising tools knows what I am talking about simply by the resources available to narrow down your audience. They know FAR more about you than a Google or Amazon... However, like Google or Amazon, advertisers do not have access to personally identifiable information -- it is more like "Send this advertisement to all users in Kansas City who have shown an interest in baseball and eat in this neighborhood." The list of users is NEVER shown to the "consumer of the information." Not that any of them couldn't be hacked...

Adam

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 10:00 am
Different Computers offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

I never log in to Facebook either. :lol:

And these Indigo additions would affect me in as much as they take dev time away from other features.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 12:15 pm
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

I never log in to Facebook either.

That's why I said it wasn't aimed specifically at you as I didn't presume to know if you personally used Facebook or not. :)

And these Indigo additions would affect me in as much as they take dev time away from other features.

Ahh, but I didn't say it wouldn't affect you... I said it wouldn't affect you "any more than the Z-Wave interface affects INSTEON-only users." As in, a diverse product is going to need to go in many different directions, some of which you won't use. For instance, their updating of Indigo Touch affects me in that it takes development time away from things I use; but at the same time I recognize that any movement forward increases the reach and customer base of the platform and that IS a good thing in the end.

I figure they've survived for a long time, Matt & Jay know how to prioritize. We may not always agree with them, and they will be wrong at times, but overall I think we all agree that it is one hell of a product and a community.

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 2:40 pm
spiv offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

Alexa has become a "phenomenon" that caught everyone by surprise. When it first came out, most people said "Huh?" or "that's creepy that it is always listening".

Now we have even Apple running scared that they "missed the boat" on a whole new direction.

As you mention, the point of implementing OAuth and all the plumbing needed for a cloud-based integration is choice and freedom. There is no "One way" to use home automation and imperfect as it may be, voice is the "killer feature" driving consumers, not just geeks and techies, to start buying into home automation.


RogueProeliator wrote:
I figure they've survived for a long time, Matt & Jay know how to prioritize. We may not always agree with them, and they will be wrong at times, but overall I think we all agree that it is one hell of a product and a community.


The only point I would make is that the industry has changed. With Apple, Google, and Amazon now driving it mainstream, the ways you made product decisions in the past may not apply. Case in point - before the IBM PC was brought out by IBM, the leading hacker/geek platform was microcomputers like the Altair and Imsai 8080 and others based on the "S-100" motherboard/bus structure. (I had several).

When the PC came out, "everyone" said ignore it - it is a piece of junk. runs slower, isn't well designed, has lousy peripherals, etc. etc. So the S-100 guys (both hardware and software) kept their priorities the same. We all know what happened - they went out of business and IBM (and PC clones), technically inferior, but dominated the market and they made all the $$.

There was a little software company that wrote the first basic interpreter for the Altair in a hotel room in NM. That guy saw the IBM PC and he changed his entire company's priority to focus on that "inferior" product that everybody wanted. His name was Bill Gates and the company was Microsoft. They are still around and both he, the company, and the investors had made a lot of $$.

One company, Sonos, is almost dead already because of Alexa and their (Sonos) decision not to embrace voice integration right away. Consumers are buying millions of "inferior" Amazon Echos instead of buying the high-quality, beautiful sounding Sonos. (Other issues too, like screwing the dealers, but just trying to make a point that home automation is changing and one can either change with it or be left behind as road kill.)

Posted on
Wed May 10, 2017 11:05 pm
kw123 offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

I hesitate to install a device with a mike (and now also available with camera) that is actively monitored by some identity / someone / something out in the cloud. .. ===> not in my house

Karl

.. none of my cameras is connected to the could and they do not know the router IP

Posted on
Fri May 12, 2017 12:54 am
spiv offline
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Amazon Echo Show will have additional developer options

According to the Verge, the Echo Show will allow streaming video from security cameras and will have an upgraded devkit to allow more interactive skills:

"For Echo Show, there will be an easy way for developers to send a video to the device, using an Amazon-built video player that controls playback with voice and touch. All a developer really needs is a URL to a video and they're in business — perfect for responding to a question with a how-to video, for instance. The Smart Home API for Alexa is also being extended so the Echo Show can easily show a video feed from a smart home camera with minimal developer effort.

What's more intriguing — and a little unclear at the moment — are the "GUI templates" Amazon will offer to developers to make their skill cards more interactive. The updated Jeopardy!, Uber, and Allrecipes skills that have been announced so far might be good examples of the sort of flexibility developers can expect when they get access to these tools later this summer. "

Posted on
Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:28 pm
T-Power offline
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Re: DomoPad + new Amazon Echo Show -- awesome potential

There can be only one, may it be Domotics Pad!

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