INSTEON Link Managment

[matt (support)]

I'm not really clear as to what I can now do with Insteon Scenes/Groups that I couldn't already do with Action Groups in Indigo.

The INSTEON scenes/groups allow you to control multiple device all in unison, whereas Action Groups that use direct INSTEON commands are sequential and can take a while if you have a bunch of devices. Additionally, each dimmable device in a scene can have its own Ramp Rate. Lastly, using INSTEON scenes/groups is the only way to control the KeypadLinc LED states.

I'm still using Action Groups (or just multiple actions inline in a Trigger or Time/Date Action) in some cases. But for most of my lighting scenes I have switched over to using INSTEON scenes.

Regards,
Matt

Wow! I am frickin' loving 2.5 beta 11. I see beta 12 is already up, I'll try it. The link management and group/scene commands are EXACTLY what I've been waiting for!!!!!!

I love that I can now change links without having to run around the house and garden, manually holding set buttons for 3 - 10 seconds, etc. And the Powerlink Scenes make mood lighting changes look so much sexier!!!

THIS IS WHAT INSTEON IS ALL ABOUT! Fantastic! Thank you a million times!

Matt,

This is just too cool! The link management was well worth the wait. Finally, I'll be able to control my LEDs (aka search lights) in the bedroom!

Speaking of which, I'd like to jump on the bandwagon in requesting the ability to control multiple LEDs on a single controller in a given scene command.

I suppose you could break up the request into multiple consecutive scene commands, "under the hood", as long as we were able to "appear" to add multiple LEDs to a given scene, within the UI.

$.02
Bob E.

Matt (or others), can I get your perspective on how you think users should set up primary & secondary switches in Indigo? Generally I've done it this way: I have primary & secondary switches installed controlling, for example, Mud Room Lights. In Indigo I added one device called 'Mud Room Lights' and assigned to it the Insteon address of the primary switch (the one controlling the load). I don't add any device at all for the secondary switch. This has the advantage of being very clear in the UI as there is no redundant entry with no particular purpose.

This all made perfect sense to me until the new link management capability came out in the 2.5 beta. Now when I manage links of the primary device it shows the link to an 'unknown device' (obviously). It's tempting for me to define these 'unknown devices' to make the manage links UI more understandable, but it then has the downside of adding the useless entries to the Device UI. Your thoughts?

Just a thought that might help address this: it would be great if there was an option in the Create & Edit Device UIs to "Show in Indigo Devices UI - Y/N".

(btw, thank you for previous response helping me to better understand advantages of Scenes vs. Action Groups)

jmesberg, i went through the same thoughts as you and deciding to create the devices in Indigo. I give them a name of "Location" + "Extra button" since they are not technically wired to any specific load.

This gives me some flexibility on how I link them. Someday I may have indigo dynamically remap some of these switches depending the mode of the house, weather, etc.

Matt, looks great! I am finally using Insteon scenes because before this I was too lazy to run around the house pressing and linking the devices together.

A couple of questions:

1. I assume the purpose of the persistent link option is to reapply links from the database to the devices in the event the device was changed locally or replaced. So far, I can't seem to get this to work. Here is what I did: on a KPL, defined links and cross-links between multiple buttons and devices. Then did a factory reset on the KPL. Did a "resync links" on the KPL. The result was that while the links seem to be restored (the buttons control the correct devices), only one of these links show up in "manage links." I also tried a "sync all devices" with the same result. What am I doing wrong?

2. On the KPL, how do I define the local load to be linked to a button?

3. Any chance that in the future, we will be able to set other device options remotely (as an example, on the KPL, changing a button between toggle and non-toggle mode)?

Link Management is interesting, I've found all sorts of weird stuff. I have some devices linked to 'unknown' devices (likely a couple of switches that I had to RMA for defective buttons), found that somehow my pantry light was linked to my dining room light, even though the dining room indicator never turns on when the pantry light goes on, and you can't control the pantry from the dining room.

The most interesting is the one I have a question about. A few of my devices list the PowerLink Interface as a 'controller device'. Most of them don't.

What should the truth be? Should I manually add the PowerLinc Interface to all my devices, even though they work fine now; or should I delete the PowerLinc links that exist?

Matt (or others), can I get your perspective on how you think users should set up primary & secondary switches in Indigo? Generally I've done it this way: I have primary & secondary switches installed controlling, for example, Mud Room Lights. In Indigo I added one device called 'Mud Room Lights' and assigned to it the Insteon address of the primary switch (the one controlling the load). I don't add any device at all for the secondary switch. This has the advantage of being very clear in the UI as there is no redundant entry with no particular purpose.

I have 'device' entries for every device I have. I didn't indicate which one was the one that truly drove the load, it didn't really matter. What mattered was that I was able to set up action groups for each 3/more way circuit so that I'd use the action group to control the load rather than an individual device. This means that when I turn on a light through Indigo, all the appropriate indicators (on the physical switches and in the Indigo UI) get updated.

For example, my stairwell:
1) Device called 'Hallway - Stairs'
2) Device called 'Hallway - Stairs (top)' (both linked together so when I hit a button the other indicator ramps up appropriately)
3) Action Groups called 'Hallway - On' and 'Hallway - Off' which have commands to turn all the individual hallway switches on or off
4) Time Actions and Trigger Actions call 'Hallway - On'(or off) rather than the individual 'Hallway - Stairs' devices

I'm loving the new beta. However, I'm a little confused. If I create a new group/scene, I can add responders to it, but how do I add a controller to control it.

For example, I have a button on a keypad that I want to control the scene. Can I add it directly, or do I have to add it via a trigger action (in which case I really need two, one for the on, and one for the off).

I see an unknown device I can add as a responder, but I'm not really sure what that is. Is that the powerlink module?

[matt (support)]

1. I assume the purpose of the persistent link option is to reapply links from the database to the devices in the event the device was changed locally or replaced. .... The result was that while the links seem to be restored (the buttons control the correct devices), only one of these links show up in "manage links."

You are correct in how this is supposed to work. This sounds similar to a bug I had hoped was fixed in beta 12. Are you running beta 12? And can you email me your database (along with info on which KPL Device isn't working)? I should be able to manually heal your database so that it works.

2. On the KPL, how do I define the local load to be linked to a button?

I don't believe the KPLs support internal linking like this.

3. Any chance that in the future, we will be able to set other device options remotely (as an example, on the KPL, changing a button between toggle and non-toggle mode)?

This is on the ToDo list, but I don't know if it will make it into 2.5.

Regards,
Matt

[matt (support)]

The most interesting is the one I have a question about. A few of my devices list the PowerLink Interface as a 'controller device'. Most of them don't.

What should the truth be? Should I manually add the PowerLinc Interface to all my devices, even though they work fine now; or should I delete the PowerLinc links that exist?

It can be either. Indigo automatically adds the PowerLinc as a responder to most devices that are controllers (SwitchLinc, KeypadLinc, ControLinc, RemoteLinc) so that Indigo can be notified of local (at the device) state changes the user makes. Indigo doesn't show most of these links in the Link Management UI. They aren't editable and cannot be deleted because 99.9% of the time you want them. With the new Link Management and scenes capability, the PowerLinc can be a controller and send out scene/group commands to responder. These links are always shown.

[matt (support)]

I'm loving the new beta. However, I'm a little confused. If I create a new group/scene, I can add responders to it, but how do I add a controller to control it.

You can, via the Link Managenent dialog (Cmd+L shortcut) add links directly between devices. Those links won't need Indigo running at all or the PowerLinc plugged in to work once they are defined.

For you example, you want choose the KeypadLinc at the main device (top popup control in the dialog) and then you would press the New Link To Responder button and fill in the information at the bottom for each responder you want to add. Indigo automatically handles creating the link in the controlling device (KeypadLinc) and the links in the responding device. So you can either add responding links to a controller, or you can add controller links to a responder. In either case the end result will be the same. You don't have to add them in both places.

I see an unknown device I can add as a responder, but I'm not really sure what that is. Is that the powerlink module?

It should show it is the PowerLinc device if it has the PowerLinc address. Unknown should only occur if Indigo really doesn't have a clue as to what device it is. Does the address shown match anything you have?

Regards,
Matt

I see how I can add a responder to for example a keypad, but I don't see how I can make that responder a scene.

Only the other devices I've previously added, and one device that is called 'unknown device', uses data 254 31 0 are available.

I tried to add the powerlink as a device (using the listed address from one of the controllers), but that never completes.

So I can only use a trigger action to set one of the scenes.


Unknown device: Would an X10 IR controller show up?

1. I assume the purpose of the persistent link option is to reapply links from the database to the devices in the event the device was changed locally or replaced. .... The result was that while the links seem to be restored (the buttons control the correct devices), only one of these links show up in "manage links."

You are correct in how this is supposed to work. This sounds similar to a bug I had hoped was fixed in beta 12. Are you running beta 12? And can you email me your database (along with info on which KPL Device isn't working)? I should be able to manually heal your database so that it works.

Yes I am running beta 12. I can send you the database if it will help your troubleshooting, but the healing shouldn't be necessary (it's so easy to create links now, it will only take me a few minutes to add the links back in!).

2. On the KPL, how do I define the local load to be linked to a button?

I don't believe the KPLs support internal linking like this.

They seem to. I can manually create an internal link. For example, I created a scene on button 7 that includes the local load (button 1).

[matt (support)]

I see how I can add a responder to for example a keypad, but I don't see how I can make that responder a scene.

A scene is just multiple links that all have the same group (or button) number. So if you add multiple responder links to the KeypadLinc and set them all to group/button #4, then when you press button #4 on the KeypadLinc all of those responders will respond (and thus are a scene).

Only the other devices I've previously added, and one device that is called 'unknown device', uses data 254 31 0 are available.

Any INSTEON device that you have added which controls a load should be able to be added (SwitchLinc, LampLinc, ApplianceLinc, KeypadLinc). This presumes you have defined these devices in Indigo, of course.

I tried to add the powerlink as a device (using the listed address from one of the controllers), but that never completes.

Yeah, don't do that. You are trying to create a scene such that pressing KeypadLinc button #3 controls a few other modules directly, correct? If so, then no need to do anything with the PowerLinc.

So I can only use a trigger action to set one of the scenes.

You can do it this way (by using a Trigger Action that then sends a PowerLinc Group scene), but it is an extra step. And note that Indigo always automatically adds the PowerLinc as a responder to every controlling module, so you can create Trigger Actions for any KeypadLinc button without doing anything but defining the KeypadLinc device in Indigo. The Links Management dialog doesn't show these links since they are not user editable.

Unknown device: Would an X10 IR controller show up?

Nope, only INSTEON devices.

Regards,
Matt