INSTEON Link Managment

Feature request:

It would be nice to define a specific scene and name it. For example:

Scene Name: Upstairs Lights
Devices/States: Master Bedroom Entry Light, Level 100, Rate 0.1
Entry Light Primary, Level 100, Rate 0.1
Master Hall Primary, Level 75, Rate 8.5

Then, using the Manage INSTEON Device Links, it would be great to assign a predefined scene to a group on a device.

For example, if I had two remotelincs, one for the bedroom, and one for the living room, as well as two or three keypad lincs, I could have many scenes in common for the multiple devices, with minimal amount of duplication of effort.

Right now, if I have a specific scene I want to program in to each device I have to duplicate it on all three.

Feature request:

It would be nice to define a specific scene and name it. For example:

Scene Name: Upstairs Lights
Devices/States: Master Bedroom Entry Light, Level 100, Rate 0.1
Entry Light Primary, Level 100, Rate 0.1
Master Hall Primary, Level 75, Rate 8.5

Then, using the Manage INSTEON Device Links, it would be great to assign a predefined scene to a group on a device.

For example, if I had two remotelincs, one for the bedroom, and one for the living room, as well as two or three keypad lincs, I could have many scenes in common for the multiple devices, with minimal amount of duplication of effort.

Right now, if I have a specific scene I want to program in to each device I have to duplicate it on all three.

I had a couple of scenes with the above sceneiro. What I did was create an Action Group that contained the Insteon commands for the scene, and then use a Trigger Action for each button press to activate that scene. Speed wise I couldn't tell any difference than if the buttons were programmed locally. Obviously this wont work if you want to turn off your computer.

I also had one of the scenes being called from a date/time action so it made sense for me to do it that way rather than trying to duplicate things and get them all the same.


One feature I would like to propose is the ability to add/edit the PowerLinc groups/scenes without having to edit an action. For not I just created an Action group that is not used anywhere and have been doing all my manipulation there.

[matt (support)]

Hi George,

The new link management seems to be working fine except for trying to delete two unknown links on one of my KeypadLincs.

Can you email me your Indigo database file (indigo-support at perceptiveautomation.com)? I'd like to take a look at what is going on with those 2 links.

Matt

[matt (support)]

Thanks for all the great feedback (and bug reports). It looks like beta 11 (released last night) fixed the responder UI bug that some folks were seeing.

Below are answers and comments on a bunch of the posts up to this point. If you have an open question/comment, then be sure and read through these.

IMHO - the link manager should probably be it's own window, available from the main "Window" menu rather than having to navigate through a device.

It isn't available via the Window menu, but I did add to beta 11 an item (and shortcut key CMD+L) to the Interface menu.

It would like to suggest devices with valid Insteon addresses should appear in the pull down of devices in the link manager. I've got quite a few undefined modules (with undefined addresses) in anticipation of future purchases with Norm.

This is a good point and request. Unfortunately, it is a bit complicated. The problem is most of the UI shown for editing links is contextual and changes based on the device type/properties. The UI shown for a KeypadLinc is different than that of an ApplianceLinc, for example. I could, of course, add some way to specify the Device type before Indigo links up with it, but that is yet more UI and options.

For devices like the ControlLinc, it would be really nice to see the links associated with each button.

This should be working in beta 11 now.

This may be a bug related to the preceding item, but I can't add a new link to a responder in an "Send Insteon Scene/Group" under the Action Groups either.

Yep, same bug that should be fixed now.

Doing one better for the ControLlink - it would be really cool if there was a "Virtual ControlLinc or RemoteLinc" GUI

Agreed. Having some alternative visual/graph representation of the links and what they are assigned to would be neat. Not going to happen for 2.5 though.

But I have found is that if I change the Group number to 2, and then change it back to #1, it then draws correctly.

Should be fixed in beta 11.

Couple of questions... When I create an Action Group and then do a "Show All" all the Insteon Groups/scenes are listed as such with their number next to them. Would it be possible to populate that field with the description as well?

Yes, I'll try to get that into the next beta.

Say I create a group #10 on the Powerlinc and it controls the main load on the Living Room KPL. In that same group if I try to control button #3 on the same KPL and sync, both the above links are deleted.

Currently, this is a limitation to how Indigo manages links. Indigo only lets you define links in devices if they contain unique address/group number pairs. Indigo masks the complexity of having to define links in both controllers and responders. Every link is really a pair of links, one inside the controller device and one in the responder device(s). Indigo has an underlying (and simplifying, which means less bugs) assumption that every controller link has exactly 1 responder link per responder device. In the case you are describing you really need 1 controller link that has 2 or more responder links in the same responder device. This gets much more difficult to manage (and sync) internally, so Indigo doesn't allow it, at least not in the current version. The solution as you have found is to use multiple scene/groups. It may not be quite as bad as you think though -- you can control multiple KeypadLink LEDs in one scene/group IF they are inside different KeypadLincs. You just cannot control multiple buttons on the same KeypadLinc (or control the KeypadLinc's main load and any of its buttons) from within the same scene. I'll consider revisiting this at some point -- I had hoped it would take longer than 24 hours for someone to find this.

I just upgraded to 2.5 beta 11 and I'm having linking issues. Whenever I change anything on link manager I cannot link the changes.

Presuming dsnider's suggestion doesn't help, can you email me (indigo-support at perceptiveautomation.com) your Indigo database file? I need to take a look at it to see what is going wrong.

It would be nice to define a specific scene and name it.

Good idea. One can already name the PowerLinc's group/scenes, but the other remote devices cannot currently be named (or re-used). I think snowjay's suggestion is a good one though. Then you only have to have the scene programmed 1 time, versus having Indigo (even if it is automated) push the scene out multiple times to multiple devices.

I had a couple of scenes with the above sceneiro. What I did was create an Action Group that contained the Insteon commands for the scene, and then use a Trigger Action for each button press to activate that scene. Speed wise I couldn't tell any difference than if the buttons were programmed locally. Obviously this wont work if you want to turn off your computer.

Actually, I believe this should work if you upload the logic to the PowerLinc 2414U even if your Mac is turned off. That type of Trigger Action (on receive of INSTEON command, send a PowerLinc group/scene command) is supported in beta 11. So one could not define any INSTEON scenes in their remote devices, and instead program them all into the PowerLinc and use Trigger Actions to execute them all. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, but it is an interesting approach. Note that the PowerLinc can only send 255 unique scenes, however. And Indigo limits it to 250 since I have something else planned for a couple of those last ones.

One feature I would like to propose is the ability to add/edit the PowerLinc groups/scenes without having to edit an action. For not I just created an Action group that is not used anywhere and have been doing all my manipulation there.

Agreed. I need to address this.

Thanks again for all the great feedback everyone! I consider this a successful beta already and it has only been a couple of days!

Regards,
Matt

Matt,
3.0 Beta 11 is to me the best & most useful upgrade yet!!
One thing I would find useful is to be able to link manage another PowerLinc Interface like the 2414S rs232 serial interface which is used with the elk m1 security system. Or at least recognize it in the manage device links other than as "unknown".

Matt,

I have an issue where one of my keypadlinc's does not show any connections and when I try to add one it says that I need to sync, so I sync, then sync again and it just seems to stay the same. The buttons still work as they used to. It is the same version as the others in my house that are working a V2 with firmware 2.9.. do you have an ideas how to get this working? Other then that this is fantastic, my controlink and and other devices are working great.

[matt (support)]

I have an issue where one of my keypadlinc's does not show any connections and when I try to add one it says that I need to sync, so I sync, then sync again and it just seems to stay the same.

Run through all your steps (adding the link, then syncing) and copy/paste what you see in the Event Log into a forum post for me.

Also try doing the Resync Links button inside the Device dialog for your KeypadLinc. That will force Indigo to do a full (versus changes only) sync for the KeypadLinc. Might help...

Matt

Thanks for the quick response Matt.

Whenever I do anything with the one that is not working "Master Bed Lights" it always says insert memory address cache undefined; must perform full device sync and then goes through 20 lines of reading and says updated. For the devices that are working like the "Back Porch Keypad" it just syncs changes only and does a single line. I never get an error, it just says it is updated and it's not.

Dec 30, 2007 12:48:39 PM
PowerLinc Linking - updating local links from UI changes
PowerLinc Linking - update complete
PowerLinc Linking - batch syncing changed links for "Master Bed Lights"
PowerLinc Linking - batch syncing changed links for "Back Porch Keypad"
PowerLinc Linking - batch sync started
PowerLinc Linking
PowerLinc Linking - syncing remote device "Master Bed Lights" (address 0A.AA.00, firmware version 2.9)
PowerLinc Linking - syncing changes only
PowerLinc Linking - insert memory address cache undefined; must perform full device sync
PowerLinc Linking - syncing all links
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 07.F6.75, flags E2, group 01, data FE 1F 01
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to responder 07.F6.75, flags E2, group 02, data FE 1F 02
... goes on for 20 more lines
PowerLinc Linking - . . . read: INSTEON dev link to controller 07.F6.75, flags A2, group 0D, data FF 1F 08
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 1
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 2
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 3
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 4
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 5
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 6
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 7
PowerLinc Linking - . . found: PowerLinc responder for group 8
PowerLinc Linking - comparing local and remote links
PowerLinc Linking - . . match: remote link is identical to new link 07.F6.75 group 0D
PowerLinc Linking - compare complete
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - device "Master Bed Lights" links updated
PowerLinc Linking
PowerLinc Linking - syncing remote device "Back Porch Keypad" (address 0A.AE.09, firmware version 2.9)
PowerLinc Linking - syncing changes only
PowerLinc Linking - . deleting: INSTEON dev link to responder 0A.AA.00, flags E2, group 06, data FE 1F 06
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - batch sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - device "Back Porch Keypad" links updated

Can't say enough good things about the link management. Thanks for getting this out there! I know it took a long time, but it seems to be a well thought out and executed solution.

[matt (support)]

Whenever I do anything with the one that is not working "Master Bed Lights" it always says insert memory address cache undefined

Can you email me (indigo-support at perceptiveautomation.com) your Indigo database file? Something strange is going on with that device. It should definitely not have to do a full sync every time like that.

Matt

[matt (support)]

Can't say enough good things about the link management. Thanks for getting this out there! I know it took a long time, but it seems to be a well thought out and executed solution.

Thanks!

Matt

Can you email me (indigo-support at perceptiveautomation.com) your Indigo database file? Something strange is going on with that device. It should definitely not have to do a full sync every time like that.

Matt

Should I remove it from the setup and re-add it? Maybe that will correct it. I sent you the database file.

Matt, I just installed the 2.5 beta 11 and its working great -- love the new link management capability!

I'd like to ask you (or other forum members) a basic question though....I'm not really clear as to what I can now do with Insteon Scenes/Groups that I couldn't already do with Action Groups in Indigo. I'm struggling to figure out what new capability this gives me.

Any help?

Can't say enough good things about the link management. Thanks for getting this out there! I know it took a long time, but it seems to be a well thought out and executed solution.

Could not agree more. Thanks so much for getting this functionality out in the open. Makes an already-great product even better! Keep up the excellent work, Matt. And have a great New Year!

Matt, I just installed the 2.5 beta 11 and its working great -- love the new link management capability!

I'd like to ask you (or other forum members) a basic question though....I'm not really clear as to what I can now do with Insteon Scenes/Groups that I couldn't already do with Action Groups in Indigo. I'm struggling to figure out what new capability this gives me.

Any help?

You can set ramp rates and also control the LED status lights on KeypadLincs.

Plus the group/scenes execute faster than an Action Group with multiple items.