Possible to change PLM without removing old PLM id from link

Howdy

Im essentially trying to have two PLMs and I want to change out the PLM (both 2413Us) but want to leave the old PLM's id in the linked devices. I want to run a dual system with Indigo and Home Assistant.

Is it possible to run the Sync in Indigo after the PLM change where it does not remove the old links?

Thanks

[jay (support)]

No.

And I would advise against trying to run in this configuration. When you create links in devices and the PowerLinc, then if one of the PowerLincs happens to be offline you're going to put the device into retry mode until it eventually fails. This is going to cause a lot more Insteon traffic and Insteon sucks at collision detection/recovers. Also, there are some devices that create a "broadcast" destination link, and that link is maintained to the last controller to which it links. So you will miss status updates on one side or the other.

All in all, it's generally a bad idea to try to have multiple Insteon main controllers (PowerLinc, USB Dongle, Hub, etc) on any given Insteon network. We've had quite a few people try it for a variety of reasons, and the majority eventually take out one because it negatively impacts reliability.

Can you explain more why you want to run both Indigo and HA?

So first off let me say I have been a happy Indigo user since 2009. What I'm trying to do is maintain the two systems running simultaneously as I get my automations moved over to HA. I want to transition to HA for the primary control of my house and plan to continue using Indigo it to manage the configuration of the Insteon network. Indigo has superior Insteon device configuration. As to why I want to run HA as the primary I have quite a few reasons, but I don't want to seem like I am bashing Indigo. Ill be happy to go into it if you want.

As well I believe I found a way to be able to get Sync the PLMs so I can essentially clone it. If I remove the reference to the "old" PLM from the <PowerLincAddressList type="vector"> in the indiDb it should treat it as an unknown link and ignore in the sync. It does this right now when an Insteon HUB is controlling the devices simultaneously, which I have running as well but am trying to get away from. Is this correct?

Retry mode will not be an issue once I get transition done because I will only be having one PLM on it then and move it back to the Indigo host in order to config. I can live with it in the short term. As for Broadcast I will be using that last PLM I configured eventually under HA so I will catch the status updates as well.

[matt (support)]

Removing it from <PowerLincAddressList> will keep Indigo from trying to delete or swap the old PowerLinc link with the new one. I'm not sure if it will do exactly what you need or not from there, but the smarts of trying to swap the new PowerLinc address in place of the old one of all modules will not occur.

I'd love to learn more about your decision. I've been following OpenHAB since Kai first became unhappy with Misterhouse years ago and posted about starting something different based on Java. Likewise I've followed Home Assistant since shortly after it was released. I'll admit, both are fun to play with. They make me think about Home Automation years ago when the things we take for granted now were new and exciting discoveries. I have OpenHAB, Home Assistant, Domoticz, and Homeseer Pro all on VMs in the house and tinker with them on a fairly regular basis. I'm even considering using Home Assistant in an RV project because of it's ability to run on a RPi and the non-critical nature HA when of camping...

However, fun-factor aside - there is no way I'd trust the systems in my house that I (and more importantly my wife) defend on to function. With Indigo, reliability isn't even a thought. It's just baked in. Do I wish they had some of the features of the other stuff? Sure - but I'd never trade it for reliability. I've been in HA for 30 years, way before it was cool and I've tried almost everything out there at least once and I've never had anything as reliable as is my Indigo installations, almost always if something fails, it's because I've done something stupid, not the fault of Indigo.

Specifically to Home Assistant, I feel pretty well versed the product, and have an Insteon home as well. While feature-rich, I find the overall architecture and reliability of the product to be lacking. First off, having to restart when you add a device? With several hundred devices/triggers/schedules in my house the will fail during restart time. Thats a hard "no" for me right there. Also the updates are out of control, there are so many breaking changes between updates - plus the careful balance of OS, libraries and Python versions makes every update a nail-chewing experience. But you say - There's HASS.IO which solves a lot of that... Yes that's true, but you trade flexibility for an increase in reliability, and with their new OS you still run into reliability problems and concessions (having to run the 32bit OS on the newest 64 bit Pi to avoid random slowdowns and crashes, etc.). Even still, it's on a Pi... Again fun hardware but not the most reliable. They're fine for auxiliary systems (I have 7 running around the house for various ancillary things). So why not run it on a NUC, and/or on Docker. Tried that too, on a NUC, and on a server with 80 Cores and 2 terabytes of RAM - same reliability problems.... Meanwhile Indigo keeps running and running. There's a fun guy to watch youtube, Dr.Zzzs. He does a lot with Home Assistant and seems over all to be very nice and helpful to others. He just pulled out his thermostats and replaces them with ESP8266 chips, relays and all fo the logic in Home Assistant, and he lives in Utah... The first time his RPi fails in sub-freezing weather, he's going to wish he'd never done that. Again, yes it's fun - but... And don't get me started on the lack of proper "real" device control... Do they support Insteon and Wave, yep. But dig in and you'll quickly see how they're lagging behind Indigo's support - not of number different devices, but in actually day-to-day operation. The new MQTT based Insteon component in HASS is promising, but still lacking support of thermostats and EZFlora so is a non-starter for me. The build-in plm component is way too primitive for my needs.

As a suggestion, leave the heavy lifting and reliability of your core systems to Indigo, then use the excellent Greensky MQTT plugin to integrate Indigo with Home Assistant, or other cool new thing with x feature you want. As an example - I LOVE the HABPanel interface of OpenHAB, and even one of the newly-developed tile-based interfaces of HASS - if it weren't for the sheer awesomeness of Domopad, I'd duplicate the necessary devices via MQTT in one of them, and use HASS/OpenHAB to drive the user interface, but I'd keep the core logic and functionality on the most reliable system.

There are a lot of people using open source HA systems with varying degrees of success, and the passion and momentum behind them are certainly infectious, but after having the reliability of Indigo, I can't imagine trusting my house to anything else. This is all just food for thought, of course. Everyone's needs and expectations are different; that, along with all the innovations that come from that diversity is what makes this big blue marble we live on so awesome. I'd still love to read about the reasons behind your decisions and truly love hearing about people journey with home automation! Best of luck in whatever your final decision is!!

Terry