Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

now the garbage X10 signals started coming in. I have no X10. I tried what was suggested and turned off every device one at a time and just when I thought I found the failed device because the J10 status requests stopped, If I would use any Insteon device the j10 status would start again.
My conclusion is that the new 2413 is either bad or there is a firmware bug. My old one is version 9.13 and the new one has a much higher version, sorry cant remember what version. I’m going to reach out to Smarthome and try to figure something out.
I wish there was a workaround for having the 2413 installed on my UPS system where the Mac is but I have tried and it just doesn’t work, so it remains on an outlet that looses power.

This sounds more like your old 2413 has died on X10, and that something is causing power line interference which is showing up as X10 traffic on your new 2413U. Since the new unit is able to see the X10 traffic, it's thinking that garbage is real traffic. (One complaint with the 2413U's is that X10 functionality is known to die after a year or two, etc).

That's what effectively was happening with my 3d printer, it's power line interference was being seen as X10 traffic and was killing my 2413U since it couldn't keep up.

If you wish to troubleshoot, here's my suggestion.

From what I can tell a Filterlinc is effectively an ferrite choke with some extra active circuitry. In my experimentation (in solving this problem for my 3d printer), I found a ferrite choke resolved the issue... For example, https://amzn.to/2OpnS17. And a variety pack of Ferrite Chokes is $12, vs $39-50 for a single filterlinc, the Ferrite Chokes are faster, easier, and didn't have a 2/3rd DOA rate as the filterlincs I ordered did.

So the issue really is more in finding out what's causing the interference, and then slapping a ferrite choke (or two) on it, and see if that did resolve the issue.

Cheap computer power supplies are the most likely candidate (eg, my 3d printer was less than $200 USD, it definitely has a cheap power supply). But anything that has a motor, compressor or a switching power supply is a possibility.

Unplugging them temporarily and seeing if the X10 traffic disappears is the easiest way to see if they are the culprit. Simply turning them off may still leave the power supply running, just not providing a full load (eg TV's are in sleep mode, and not really turned off these days).

High Sierra is where the issues started...for some.

It's where the driver issues in macOS were introduced. The majority of users who have issues with High Sierra didn't have issues before upgrading to it.

I just got a brand-new Mac Mini to replace my old Mini I was using as a server. One hope was that the USB serial problem would be dealt with in the new hardware. No change. Insteon still doesn't work. I still see changes in the Insteon devices (indigo shows devices turning off and on) but any attempt to control a device results in no response and a, "no ACK from device," message.

So, the brand new Mini's still have the old problems. FYI.

[matt (support)]

I'm not totally convinced this isn't a signal problem, or a failing Insteon module somewhere spewing garbage RF or power line commands that is causing an issue.

Try the following:

1) Use an extension cord to plug the PowerLinc into a circuit that doesn't have much of anything plugged in (and unplug the other things). Get it away from your computer equipment circuit.
2) Plug into that same circuit (plain power strip) an appliance or lamp module.
3) Try controlling and syncing it.
4) Presuming it fails, turn off all of the circuit breakers in the house except your Mac and the circuit the PowerLinc + module are using.
5) Try controlling and syncing it.

If #3 fails but #5 doesn't, then the problem is noise or interference coming from somewhere. If that is the case you can start methodically turning on circuits to try to find the culprit.

[jay (support)]

High Sierra is where the issues started...for some.

It's where the driver issues in macOS were introduced. The majority of users who have issues with High Sierra didn't have issues before upgrading to it.

I just got a brand-new Mac Mini to replace my old Mini I was using as a server. One hope was that the USB serial problem would be dealt with in the new hardware. No change. Insteon still doesn't work. I still see changes in the Insteon devices (indigo shows devices turning off and on) but any attempt to control a device results in no response and a, "no ACK from device," message.

So, the brand new Mini's still have the old problems. FYI.

Did you use migration assistant to move stuff from the old mini to the new one? I have some vague suspicions that systems that have been upgraded repeatedly (and/or migrated to from systems that have been upgraded repeatedly) might have something to do with it. For instance, some users have indicated that the Mac mini 2012 has the issue, but I found a used one for testing, did a clean OS install, and had no issues. So I'm wondering how you did your migration?

[jay (support)]

The issue is not the hardware, the issue is the driver that Apple supplies with macOS.

Well, that's part of the issue. Part of the issue seems to be some odd interaction between the USB hardware and the OS, below the driver level itself. And then we've always had some Mac hardware which was very finicky about what port (or hub) any given USB device is plugged in to. Unclear if that's hardware specific or OS or some combo.

But note, the driver issue is definitely not necessarily a given: a lot of people use High Sierra and Mojave and have no problems at all (including me on a couple of Macs). So it's valuable information to hear if someone with X hardware does or does not experience the issues.

I'm not totally convinced this isn't a signal problem, or a failing Insteon module somewhere spewing garbage RF or power line commands that is causing an issue.

Try the following:

1) Use an extension cord to plug the PowerLinc into a circuit that doesn't have much of anything plugged in (and unplug the other things). Get it away from your computer equipment circuit.
2) Plug into that same circuit (plain power strip) an appliance or lamp module.
3) Try controlling and syncing it.
4) Presuming it fails, turn off all of the circuit breakers in the house except your Mac and the circuit the PowerLinc + module are using.
5) Try controlling and syncing it.

If #3 fails but #5 doesn't, then the problem is noise or interference coming from somewhere. If that is the case you can start methodically turning on circuits to try to find the culprit.

<Dope Slap>

I feel stupid.

I thought I was good at troubleshooting. I have gone through all this before. This time I discovered that someone had plugged a plug strip into the circuit the 2314 was on instead of into the rack circuit. (The 2314 had been on its own circuit with a couple of unused wall receptacles.) Moving the plug strip plug to the rack circuit (where it was supposed to be in the first place) solved the problem. Now Insteon plays again. I suspect that the filter in the local plugstrip was filtering out the X10 signals at the receptacle the 2314 is plugged into.

Thanks for pushing me to look at it all over again Matt! Now I can go back to using some of the Insteon devices I have. Zwave works better than Insteon but there are still some Insteon devices that just don't exist in Zwave space.

High Sierra is where the issues started...for some.

It's where the driver issues in macOS were introduced. The majority of users who have issues with High Sierra didn't have issues before upgrading to it.

I just got a brand-new Mac Mini to replace my old Mini I was using as a server. One hope was that the USB serial problem would be dealt with in the new hardware. No change. Insteon still doesn't work. I still see changes in the Insteon devices (indigo shows devices turning off and on) but any attempt to control a device results in no response and a, "no ACK from device," message.

So, the brand new Mini's still have the old problems. FYI.

Did you use migration assistant to move stuff from the old mini to the new one? I have some vague suspicions that systems that have been upgraded repeatedly (and/or migrated to from systems that have been upgraded repeatedly) might have something to do with it. For instance, some users have indicated that the Mac mini 2012 has the issue, but I found a used one for testing, did a clean OS install, and had no issues. So I'm wondering how you did your migration?

I used the migration assistant. It seems to have worked. As you can see in my last message, it turned out to be an Insteon installation issue -- my fault.

Thanks!

Not sure if this is the right spot for this of not. I have been having issues with failing Insteon devices that are 8-10 years old. I am replacing with Kasa/TP link IP based switches. But I have noticed one Insteon dimmer (not connected to a load) that is refusing to link with my 2413U. What is odd, is that when you operate the dimmer, Insteon is seeing it in the log (through the 2413U) but it refuses to link to a new device. See logs below.

Received INSTEON 0D.1F.4E on (button 1)
Received INSTEON 0D.1F.4E on (button 1)
Received INSTEON 0D.1F.4E off (button 1)
Received INSTEON 0D.1F.4E on (button 1)
Received INSTEON 0D.1F.4E off (button 1)
Received INSTEON 0D.1F.4E on (button 1)
Received INSTEON 0D.1F.4E start brighten (button 1)

Feb 18, 2022 at 10:36:43 AM
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 34.7A.BB)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 0D.1F.4E, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 0D.1F.4E
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 0D.1F.4E
PowerLinc Linking - received engine version AF from 0D.1F.4E
PowerLinc Linking - sending id request for device information to 0D.1F.4E
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending id request for device information to 0D.1F.4E
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending id request for device information to 0D.1F.4E
Error linking canceled by user
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

I tried linking both by manually typing in the address, and by putting device in linking mode and waiting for address to self-populate. Neither worked.

[matt (support)]

It either is in a bad state, there is just enough power line noise to prevent it from syncing reliably, or it is malfunctioning.

To rule out #1, try factory resetting the module.
To rule out #2, try plugging the PowerLinc into an extension cord and try different outlets/circuits to see if you can get it to sync.
If you can rule out #1 and mostly rule out #2 then it is most likely a marginal/malfunctioning module.

Thanks Matt. It was a failed dimmer 2476 V3.3. It seems only about 25% of my V3.3 dimmers are still working, maybe less. The high failure right is really a dark satin on the Insteon product. I am replacing with Kasa/TP-Link internet dimmers and switches (Indigo has a great plug in for them). Changed 12 switches in the last 2 weeks, and have more available as I expect the remaining V3.3 dimmers to go at any time given recent history. Its worth noting that the dimmer that blow tend to be the ones controlled by Indigo/Insteon signals most often (the 3 way and 4 way circuits). The fail rate on the unlinked dimmers that are usually turned on/off at the switch only is much lower. Could be related, could be coincidence.

But I have one remaining issue. The linked switches that did not blow (most were upgraded in the last year to recent 2477 dimmers after they blew previously) remain linked to the switches that died and were removed. How can I clear those links? See screen shot. How can I clear link to unknown device? The device is no longer available to unsync.

Screen Shot 2022-02-19 at 11.57.58 AM.png (375.67 KiB) Viewed 4722 times

[matt (support)]

Hold down the OPTION key while selecting the menu to open the Insteon link editor and you should be able to delete that orphaned link.

I've been trying to sort out this error for a while now that is causing a lot of bad traffic and ignored commands
Error unknown command bytes received 00 15 (ignoring)

I am guessing maybe I have a bad device but no idea how to figure out which switch it is. Is there any way to delete all instead devices and start over 1 at a time adding them back in?

[matt (support)]

Removing the devices from Indigo or the PowerLinc won't help – it will still send any Insteon messages it thinks it is receiving to Indigo (just the way it works). The problem is either power line (or RF) noise, a malfunctioning PowerLinc, another module malfunctioning, or a USB issue. Unfortunately, I think #2 is the most likely.

To rule out noise try plugging the PowerLinc into different outlets on different circuits. Use an extension cord so you don't have to move your Mac.

To rule out USB issues swap the USB cable, try different USB ports, try a USB hub, and unplug other USB devices.

To rule out other modules malfunctioning you can turn off breaks in the house to disconnect lots of modules at once.

If none of those help, then the PowerLinc is most likely marginal.

I have tried two different powerlink usb modules on two different computers and get the same errors.
I will try turning off breakers and see if I can find a faulty switch.