Insteon 8 Button Dimmer Keypad to control Z-Wave Dimmers

Hi all

I'm currently planning the construction of a new house and need to think about electrical installations / automation. I'm playing with the idea of mixing Insteon with Z-Wave. In particular, I'd like to use Leviton LED-compatible dimmers and Remotec ZXT-120 IR extenders to control the mini split A/Cs. Unfortunately, Z-Wave doesn't seem to have anything that compares to Insteon's wall keypads. So I'd like to use the keypads to remote control the Z-Wave dimmers and other devices. While I understand that this should be possible through Indigo, my question is if I could expect this setup to be reliable and usable. By "usable" I mean, will there be a considerable delay between a button press on the Insteon and the responce of the Z-Wave device? I could imagine that if there is a significant delay, this might make dimming to the desired level a hit and miss.

Any other issues with this setup? Better alternatives?

Thanks

PS: Most probably, not all of the Insteon keypads would have a load connected. I understand that the other buttons can still be used, correct?

We built our house a couple years ago - so it's a good time to review! Approach very similar to yours. It's a large ultra modern place with 130 insteon switches, 23 keypadlincs etc. I have 11 AC zones on Mitsubishi electric split AC. A large number of Z-wave controllers etc.

Keypadlincs are the worst product I think I've ever used. I have endless communication issues, with them - but all else is great. I haven't found a good Z-wave substitute for them so you may well be stuck with them - if there is an 8 button z-wave pad I'm buying some tomorrow - 23 - immediately. I have all custom engraved buttons which are eye-wateringly expensive so am in pretty deep ! WRT to AC I have a great product by Cool Automation that takes serial input and controls the AC bus and all units on it. I wrote the plugin - and never had a problem. Happy to share. Beware the controller costs about $1000+. I take cooling requests on the Nest thermos and control AC from that so heat can either come from radiant floor or reverse on the mitsubishi depending on demand. I'd be wary of IR control - as it can be a bit flaky (depending on a lot of things) and the single most important consideration is how to achieve 100.0% reliability. Oh and wire anything you can rather than wireless - lots of Ethernet - and run a conduit in every wall to ceiling or sub-floor for the things you forget!

Your choices are good ones (unless you can find a better keypad) and all my friends who have alternative HA admit indigo is far superior to anything they've purchased - usually at multiples on the cost. Building from scratch with HA included from the start is most satisfying.

FWH


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+1 on the insteon 8 buttons being a problem; still using X10 palmpads with an X10-insteoon bridge at the mom's barn instead. It was a pain to program all 32 signals manually, but that was an "only once" deal until and unless the bridge dies. Why nobody can build a palmpad lookalike that uses ANY other protocol, I'll never know, but as long as the X10 can hit the bridge and those insteon signals can get back to indigo, velcroed to the wall or tossed in the glove box of the truck, those are "close enough to perfect for me"...

[jay (support)]

I have a smaller setup - my house is ~2300 sqft. I have 8 KeypadLincs (4 are dedicated FanLinc controllers) and a total of 65 Insteon devices. I use Insteon for lighting (except for a couple of switches and outlets) and have 24 Z-Wave devices for everything else (multi-sensors, smoke/carbon monoxide detectors, sirens, door locks, 1 thermostat, outdoor light control). And various plugin devices: Hue hub, Harmony hub, MyQ garage door, Honeywell WiFi thermostat, Rachio Sprinklers, RFXrec433 (sensors).

I have had no problems with KeypadLincs other than the occasional device failure (I think 3 or 4 since 2008). I also like the fact that I can directly link the KeypadLincs to other Insteon switches (or modules) so that they continue to work (if not in a reduced capacity) if Indigo isn't around for some reason (which, granted, rarely happens unless I'm doing something). The big one: dimming just works (press and hold button) when a KeypadLinc is directly linked to a dimming device (at least it does at my house) which is something that you won't get by mixing a KeypadLinc with a Z-Wave dimmer. I don't have enough experience with those multi-button Z-Wave controllers so I don't know if you can reliably directly link them.

I do have the occasional Insteon issue of signal noise - and I have to do the typical troubleshooting to find the noise maker. It is still the biggest problem with Insteon IMO. I hope the new owners of Insteon will invest more in hardening the protocol (better collision and error detection and recovery, separation of RF from power line so problems on one won't necessarily bring the other down, etc.).

Thanks for all the replies. Yeah, I already read about the keypads being the worst Insteon product. And if they can't be used for dimming Z-Wave dimmers, then I really have to find an alternative. Would anyone know if Leviton's Vizia keypads would work well for this purpose? They are nowhere near as "elegant" as the Insteons (I'd love to custom label the buttons), but if I don't find a suitable keypad, I'll end up with 7-8 switches / dimmers next to each other, which is simply not an option.

So what do other people do? Just walk around with a smartphone the entire time to use it as a remote?

Thanks again.

[jay (support)]

Yeah, I already read about the keypads being the worst Insteon product.

Really? Can you share some links? This is quite surprising to me. I'd put Insteon thermostats and sensors ahead of them in terms of unreliable products...

I really can't. I spent the whole weekend reading up on the various technologies and products and I honestly can't remember where I got this impression. It might have been reviews Amazon and / or Smarthome. Either way, if I understand your post correctly, you are saying that I won't be able to use them together with Z-Wave dimmers (other than for on / off), so they're really not what I need.

Have you looked at http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-remotec-scene-master

I've got two and love them.


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[jay (support)]

Have you looked at http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-remotec-scene-master

I've got two and love them.

Can you set that up such that when you press and hold a button it brightens/dims a Z-Wave light as long as you're holding the button, then stop when you release?

Yes, it supports Central Scene Hold/Release commands.


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Yeah I've seen those as well, They might be a solution, I just don't like the design (at all). But still, might be something to consider. So, nobody has any experience with this:

https://store.leviton.com/collections/z ... 3666558595

I think it might be a good idea to get the keypad from the same manufacturer as the dimmers ... no?

[jay (support)]

Yes, it supports Central Scene Hold/Release commands.

Interesting. Was it difficult getting it linked to your Z-Wave dimmers?

Sorry, I've not associated it directly - I would use triggers in my scene controller plugin for Hold to send Increase x% commands to dimmers.


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[jay (support)]

Sorry, I've not associated it directly - I would use triggers in my scene controller plugin for Hold to send Increase x% commands to dimmers.

Ah, gotcha.

So does this mean that I could program the C button on my Insteon Keypad to turn on/off one of my Hue bulbs? That would be really great.

Dimming the hue bulb by long pressing the button won’t be possible though, correct?