What is Keypad Linc Detached Load?

I just noticed something in the Keypad Linc Insteon linking setting: "detached load". I hope this means that in some version of the firmware, one can detach the load from the 1 button. What exactly is this and how does one configure it?

[jay (support)]

Matt may know what that setting is, but all you really have to do is cap off the load (red) wire on the KeypadLinc (rather than hooking it up to something). You can then use the 1 button just like any other button.

Matt may know what that setting is, but all you really have to do is cap off the load (red) wire on the KeypadLinc (rather than hooking it up to something). You can then use the 1 button just like any other button.

But that eliminates the ability to control the load on that switch. Think of a room that has two entrances, with two Keypad Lincs and two lights (one overhead and one set of spots). It would be ideal to have the A button on both control the overhead and the B button on both control the spots. One could do that by adding an inline module and wasting one of the built in load controllers, or one could make it so that the load could be re-assigned on the KPL. Smart home has been saying it was something coming for years, and so I wonder if it really arrived.

/carmi

[matt (support)]

I believe it does do what you think, but Indigo doesn't fully support it yet. You can, however, experiment around with it. I never have, so caveat emptor on this functionality.

To enable the detached load functionality you'll need to send the KeypadLinc (KPL) a raw command:

1) Choose the Interfaces->INSTEON->Execute Raw INSTEON Command... menu item.
2) Select your KPL device and enter 0x20 and 0x1B for command bytes 1 and 2.
3) Select the Send extended message checkbox, and press the Execute button.

Note I'm not positive extended message should be enable, but I'm pretty sure it will be required since that KPL is i2CS firmware. Also if you want to revert back to disable the detached mode then repeat above but send the bytes 0x20 and 0x1A.

What happens when it is in detached mode? Good question. I think that the first (main) button should no longer directly control the load. Instead to control the load you have to create a link to group #9 which you discovered earlier in the link management dialog. You should be able to have the KPL #1 link to group #9 on KPL #2 to control its load. Likewise, you can create and Indigo PowerLinc group/scene to control group #9 on the KPL (and thus control the load).

Some things that will likely be problems:

1) Indigo cannot create internal self referencing links in a module. So you cannot create a link for button #1 to group #9 to control the load once it is detached. You can create that link to another KPL, but not to the KPL itself. You can, however, work around this by creating an Indigo Trigger that on receiving KPL button #1 button press sends a PowerLinc Group/Scene back to the same KPL (for group #9). There will be a slight delay, but it might be tolerable.

2) Indigo isn't going to know how to reflect the ON/OFF state of group #9. That is, Indigo will always show the ON/OFF state based on the KPL button #1, even if the load is detached and really on group #9. You could manage the state manually using Triggers and have it reflected in a variable and then use a Virtual Device to accurately show the load on/off state (and you can have the Virtual Device control the load via the PowerLinc Group #9 actions).

Good luck, and let us know if it works. Definitely uncharted waters.

Matt -
Thanks for the explanation. It does exactly what I want. Now my next question is about the Indigo limitations. When you say that Indigo cannot link a module to itself, is that still a limit of the KPL, or just a legacy limit within Indigo? If I can write the local link database directly, can I link button 2 to group 9?

[matt (support)]

It is a legacy limitation of Indigo. The core issue is that despite the way it looks internal links aren't links at all. It uses a totally different mechanism internally, so Indigo cannot use its existing link synchronization engine to read or write the links.

I'd suggest you try the manual process (detailed in the manual I think). I don't know of any reason that wouldn't work in harmony with Indigo, but no guarantees. I believe that since there isn't a button #9 on the KPL that when you do the manual process you will instead use the SET button (LED pipe) for button #9. Not positive if that will work or not, but that is what I would try.

Do you have a pointer to a manual that covers this? I cannot find it in any manual of theirs. Also, do you have any pointers to current developer docs that explain the different link method?

/carmi

[matt (support)]

I'm afraid I don't have anything I can share except the information above.

I found the developer docs here, so I will play around a bit. Any chance that Indigo 7 will include improved Insteon link management (for example automatically generating the fully meshed link table connecting buttons on keypad lincs and even creating button groups for syncing purposes)?

Matt -
Thanks for the help with the unsupported feature. I cannot figure out how to use a schedule, trigger or virtual device to control the detached load. I can attach a button on another Keypad Linc to the detached load, but I cannot figure out how to otherwise control it.

/carmi

[matt (support)]

Did you create a PowerLinc Group/Scene that sends the on scene command to group #9 on that KPL? Did that sync correctly, and what occurs when you execute that scene?

Did you create a PowerLinc Group/Scene that sends the on scene command to group #9 on that KPL? Did that sync correctly, and what occurs when you execute that scene?

That is the problem. It will not create a Powerlinc scene with group 9.

If one selects button 1 one gets group 1.

Powerlinc scene with button 1 selected (shows group 1).

Button 1.png (77.8 KiB) Viewed 6126 times

If one selects detached load, one still gets group 1.

PowerLinc scene detached load also shows group 1 (not group 9 as it should).

Detached Load.png (77.68 KiB) Viewed 6126 times

On the other hand, the device links work correctly (see Stair Light Button 6).

Device links shows group 9 for detached load.

Device Links showing group 9.png (98.96 KiB) Viewed 6126 times

[matt (support)]

Definitely looks like a bug. We'll investigate, but it might be a couple of weeks before we have the chance to get it fixed.

Definitely looks like a bug. We'll investigate, but it might be a couple of weeks before we have the chance to get it fixed.

Given it took me 10 days to respond, I think a few weeks is more than reasonable.

Still cannot figure out how to link a button on the Keypad Linc to the detached load.

From the documentation:

http://cache.insteon.com/developer/2334 ... 013-en.pdf
Detach Load Notes:
- Detach Load is only supported through software. It cannot be turned on/off from the device.
- When Detach Load is turned On, the load will then be moved/controlled by Group 9
o Link to Group 9 using the SET Button.
o Link to Group 1 by using the ON or OFF Button. o Link to Buttons A-H using the A-H buttons.

- Control of the LEDs when Detach load is enabled
o To control the Group 1 LEDs, simply send the Keypad a Group 1 On/Off
command
o To control the other LEDs, use the Extended 2E Set LED Bit Mask command to
set those LEDs

-Getting status of the LEDs when Detach Load is enabled

o To get the Status of the 8 LEDs (Group 1-8), use the Read Data 2E command and
the Data 11 byte contains the LED State information.
o To get the Status of Group 9 (The Load), use the Standard status request
command Cmd1=19 Cmd2=00

[matt (support)]

Okay, the good news is I tracked down this bug and believe I have it fixed so that you can target the detached KeypadLinc (group #9) from Indigo's link editor dialog. The bad news is that change didn't make it into Indigo 6.1.10 that we just released, so we'll have to wait for 6.1.11 before you can try it out. No ETA on when that will be available but it will definitely be in 6.1.11.