Zooz ZEN32

Posted on
Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:39 pm
jltnol offline
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Zooz ZEN32

So I finally bought one of the ZEN32 switches as a test. I see a LOT of promise in this device(but still waiting on a dimmer version...). I've read and understand how to use Z-wave parameter changes to change the colors on the pads. And I can see how that can be done as an Z-Wave Modify Configuration Paramarter as an Action. But am curious if there might be plans to make that just a bit more GUI-user friendly in the future, as part of the "Brand Specific Controls". As it is, when I get to the Zooz->Set LED color, my Zooz switch popup is empty, and I can't select my ZEN32, so can't change the color thru this path.

[MODERATOR NOTE]: Split the relevant ZEN32 posts into a new topic in the Z-Wave forums since that's a much more appropriate place to discuss this topic.

Posted on
Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:08 pm
jay (support) offline
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It's dead, Jim

It’s on my todo list. Unfortunately, zooz doesn’t use the same perimeter numbers in their devices, so we have to specifically add them into the build. Yay for consistency… :roll:

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:44 pm
jltnol offline
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Re: It's dead, Jim

That makes this much more difficult for sure. Good to know its on the list, but also glad to be able to managed this thru the parameter change path for now.

Posted on
Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:52 pm
jltnol offline
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Re: It's dead, Jim

Hey Jay

I understand if you can't/ won't answer this question, and I understand the Zen32 hasn't been fully integrated into Indigo yet, but it seems like there is a definite on / off for the button on this device. You can set the individual LED's to be On with an On command, or Off with an On Command. So what I mean is at the device, there is an indication if a particular button is On or Off.... or at least if the individual LED is on or off.

But AFAIK, the only think Indigo "sees" is just a button push... it can't distinguish between an "On" command and an "Off" command.
I think I can see a way to program around this in Indigo for the time being, but was curious if there might be plans to implement a distinction between "On" and "Off" commands from this device in the future.

Posted on
Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:59 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: It's dead, Jim

The Relay state for the device in Indigo should update to ON and OFF when it is controlled, so you can create Triggers on Device State Changed to either ON or OFF. If that isn't occurring, then copy/paste the Event Log results into a reply showing what happens and do the same after a full re-sync of the device in Indigo.

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Posted on
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:49 am
jltnol offline
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Re: It's dead, Jim

Matt

In re-reading my post, I didn't do a good job of explaining my issue. The device in question, Zooz ZEN32 has a single On/Off relay, and that does show up in Indigo as expected. But this device also has 4 scene controller buttons... This particular device hasn't been fully implemented in Indigo, so the only Trigger option is for the main relay. Now, I CAN use Z-Wave Command Received as a trigger but the only options here are "Pressed" or the number of taps, not On or Off(see attached).

So with an Insteon KPL, Indigo knows the on/off state of each of the KPL's soft buttons. So I'm wondering if in a future update, Indigo might be able to distinguish between On and Off commands from the scene controller buttons on the ZEN32 as well. As it is now, the log just says "Button 2 Pressed" with no indication of whether this is On or Off. I suspect that is because that's all the information the device is actually sending into Indigo. There is a firmware update for this device which might change the info it sends out, but I'm just exploring options to update the firmware.

In the end, I'm hoping this device can replace my KPL's, but where Indigo knows what the state is of each of the KPL's buttons, that doesn't seem to be the case with Indigo with this device, at least not yet.

(And as a quick side note, you guys have made it super easy to replace an Insteon device with a Z-Wave device. Thanks for making it so simple!)
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Posted on
Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:56 am
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: It's dead, Jim

Do you have Z-wave associations set up for all these buttons, such that the buttons do a toggle on a specific load? Because that's the only way that the button press could represent on/off rather than a button press.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
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Posted on
Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:01 am
jltnol offline
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Re: It's dead, Jim

I haven't explored "associations" but have read up on this and will mess around with it.

Thanks

Posted on
Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:05 am
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: It's dead, Jim

My point is, the buttons on the device are momentary switches, they don't actually have on and off positions. So the switch itself can't differentiate between on and off. Only by knowing what action it's performing and what the current state of the target load can it determine if the push is intended to be an on or off action.

So think hard about what you're expecting to see when you ask for a button to report an on or off state. It's not a trivial decision.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
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Posted on
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:26 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Zooz ZEN32

I just split these posts into their own topic since it has nothing to do with Insteon.

To summarize:

  1. The ZEN32 does not maintain the state of the button LED as a value which can be queried. So we can't ask the device whether the LED is on/off. In fact, it will only follow the state of a device that's associated with it via Z-Wave associations.
  2. Indigo can only see when the button has been pressed as described by the popup above. Not what command was sent to the associates but only how the button was pressed - this is because the device doesn't maintain state for the LED (outside of a direct association).
  3. You can control whether the LED is on or off by setting the LED behavior to always on or always off. This does not in any way effect the command that Indigo receives from the device when the button is pressed. It also would remove the ability for that button to directly associate with another device (it uses the same parameter number to describe that as well).

It's conceivable that one could use the always on/always off config setting to create a software-based state to represent the button/LED state. But it's not something that can just be done by a simple tweak of our Z-Wave device definition. And given that it would be solely based on how the LED is configured with param tweaks, it would be susceptible to error if something else changed the config for the button to the other two options (for direct associations).

A summary of the summary: it can't behave like a KeypadLinc because it doesn't maintain button state and send different commands to Indigo based on that state (like a KeypadLinc does). It is possible to build such state management in Indigo itself, though that would be some non-trivial work and be somewhat error prone given that it's a bit of a hack.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:50 pm
jltnol offline
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Re: Zooz ZEN32

in the end, nothing surprising here. While I doubt the firmware update will change things, once I get the pieces and parts in to do the update, I'll post back if things change. My thought process is to deal with the brightness to determine if the "action" it controls is on or off, but while I can kind of see how I might can get that to work, I can also see all the reasons that will cause things to get out of "sync" between Indigo & the device.

As always.... Thanks!

Posted on
Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:37 pm
jltnol offline
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Re: Zooz ZEN32

OK so I'm sure someone will come up with a better solution, but here's what I did. Basically, I'm turning on (and off) a bunch of Hue Lights. There are separate Action Groups to turn them On and Off. Additionally, one of the hue lights updates a variable from "true" to "false" if this particular hue light is on or off.

I changed the LED status parameter on my Zooz Button to ALWAY ON, so it won't matter whether Zooz thinks the button is on or off, the LED will always be on.

In the Hue ON action group, I added a parameter change to change the color to White. and in the OFF action group, a parameter change to the color green.

So now, when the Hue lights go on, the Zooz LED changes to white, and when they are off, the Zooz LED changes to green.

The trigger is an incoming command received, in in this case, whenever Button 2 is pressed. And with a tiny python script to evaluate the hue light variable, will execute the On (or Off) group as appropriate.

My not be pretty, but it does work, at least for me.

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