Slow response from wall switch

Hi all,
I'm beginning to reinstall my z-wave devices after a move to a new home. I just installed a wall switch (GE ZW4001 relay switch 45609) to control a lamp via an appliance module. The switch works, but there is a 3 second delay before the light comes on which I never had in my earlier installation. To troubleshoot, I swapped out the switch for another of the same model and got the same result. I then swapped out the appliance module for a GE Outdoor Appliance Module (also never had issues) and still got the same result. I've also re-optimized the network and that had no effect.

For context, this is a bedroom directly above the Indigo MacMini (2012/Catalina/SSD/16gig ram) with only a wood floor in-between. The Zstick Gen5+ is plugged directly into the USB port on the MacMini and is unobstructed. (also tried changing USB ports to no avail).

What's really odd (at least to me) is I changed the triggering device to a door sensor and to a motion sensor triggered from right next to the switch location and the light switched on immediately with both of those sensors.

I'm out of ideas! Any help would be greatly appreciated!

TIA,
Jim

[jay (support)]

How are you triggering the change? Z-Wave Associations? Indigo Trigger?

Hi Jay. Indigo trigger…when switch device state becomes ON, turn on appliance module. Off is the opposite.

[jay (support)]

Ok, so the next thing we need to figure out is where in this process the extra time is being spent. You can look at the Event Log file (click on the Show Event Logs Folder button in the Event Log window, and assuming you just ran the test open the indigo_log.txt) to determine it:

1) Look for the change to the switch - it should look something like this:

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2022-11-03 10:20:56.653   Z-Wave   received "Office Closet" status update is on

2) Next, look for the trigger activation, it should look something like this:

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2022-11-03 10:25:44.870   Trigger   Office Closet becomes On

3) Finally, look for the command to turn on your appliance module, it should look something like this:

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2022-11-03 10:33:12.654   Z-Wave   sent "OM 4" on

Optimally, it would look something like this:

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2022-11-03 10:33:12.624   Z-Wave   received "Office Closet" status update is on
2022-11-03 10:33:12.625   Trigger   Office Closet becomes On
2022-11-03 10:33:12.654   Z-Wave   sent "OM 4" on

and whatever is connected to the appliance module would turn on immediately. Note that in this example there is only .03 seconds between the time that Indigo receives the status update from the switch status to on (in my case, Office Closet) and the time it sends the command to turn on the appliance module (in my case, OM 4). This time should be very small.

Harder to time is the time between when you tap the switch and the time that Indigo receives the status update, and the time that Indigo sends the on command and the time that it actually turns on. Those you'll just have to eyeball if the three lines above are fast.

Thanks, Jay. My timing looks good on those:

2022-11-03 15:04:57.858 Z-Wave received "Guest Bedroom Switch" status update is on
2022-11-03 15:04:57.859 Trigger Guest Room Light Switch - ON
2022-11-03 15:04:57.887 Z-Wave sent "Guest Room" on

Would that indicate the signal from or to the stick is the issue?

I'm not sure how to test the "harder" things; I can't judge the delay looking at the log in Indigo Touch as the time is represented as "xxx seconds ago" and only changes about every two seconds, unless that's something I can adjust? When I turn on the device from Touch, it happens instantly but I'm seeing a slight delay before the switch reflects the change.

[jay (support)]

That's why I said testing whether it's a reporting issue from the switch or a responding issue to the appliance module is tricky. I'd recommend having someone else turn the switch on and off while you're sitting at your Mac (if you don't have a laptop you can carry to the switch). Then tell them to call out exactly when they switch it on and off while you watch for log events. That should give you a pretty good idea how fast the switch is reporting to Indigo.

I guess my next question is how do you know that you're seeing a 3 second delay? Can you see the light connected to the appliance module from the switch? Can you see it from Indigo? Again, you might have to enlist help and try toggling the appliance module from Indigo and have them call out when it comes on.

Finally, this might be a range/route issue. With the appliance module in it's final location, I'd resync the switch then resync the appliance module. That will hopefully create the shortest routes between Indigo and both of them.

I’ve resynced both devices a few times.

I’m looking directly at the lamp when I push the switch button; it’s about ten feet from the switch. From my office in the next room (where I’m remoted into the Indigo Macmini using Jump Desktop, I can hear the switch and module click on/off when I trigger it from Indigo.

I will try your suggestion of having another person at the switch while I’m at the Indigo Mac.

Since the motion sensor and door sensor trigger the light (through the module) immediately, it seems the problem is related to the switch. It’s just odd that this never occurred in my previous installation.

Jay, I've completed the following testing:

1. Per your suggestion, I had the wife activate the wall switch (announcing when she pushed it) while I watched Indigo. It was about 2.5 to 3 seconds before the progress window in the lower showed the Zwave command received and then executed the action (turning on the appliance module/lamp). Tried it several times.

2. I moved the MacMini from the floor below (plugged into a monitor this time) into the room, plugged in directly below the switch (3-4 feet from the Zstick). I then optimized the two devices in question. Then I pushed the button while watching Indigo and got the same result.

3. I tried executing the trigger from the Indigo window and it was instantaneous.

4. I commanded Alexa to turn on the Guest Room (same config) and that executed in about 1.5 to 2 seconds, certainly faster than pushing the switch.

Totally don't understand how Alexa can turn on the light faster than pushing the wall switch.

Any ideas? If it wasn’t for the fact that the motion sensor and door sensor triggered the action immediately, I would have thought the receiver on the Zstick was going bad. I have no idea where to go from here.

TIA,
Jim

[jay (support)]

My suspicion is that the GE switch isn't reporting status to Indigo very quickly. Older GE switches didn't, so Indigo had to poll them for status, which can effect how fast Indigo gets the update. Edit the device in Indigo and click the Edit Device Settings... button. Does the resulting dialog contain a Poll Device State option and if so what's it set to?

Thanks, Jay. Yes, it has that option. I had tried that before but just tried it again. It defaulted to "when there was activity" but I just changed it to "as often as possible" and could see it updating in the lower left window. I resynced (just to be sure) and got the same response. Again, these same switches did not have this delay in my last installation.

I see this in the event log: (I had Alexa debug on yesterday and forgot to turn it off)

Z-Wave received "Guest Bedroom Switch" status update is on
Trigger Guest Room Light Switch - ON
Z-Wave sent "Guest Room" on
Alexa Debug deviceUpdated: Guest Room
Alexa Debug original device type: RelayDevice, updated device type: RelayDevice
Alexa Debug IndigoDeviceEndpoint.__init__ called with device: 439938875 (Guest Room)
Alexa Debug IndigoDeviceEndpoint.__init__ called with device: 439938875 (Guest Room)
Z-Wave received "Guest Bedroom Switch" status update is off
Trigger Guest Room Light Switch - OFF
Z-Wave sent "Guest Room" off
Alexa Debug deviceUpdated: Guest Room
Alexa Debug original device type: RelayDevice, updated device type: RelayDevice
Alexa Debug IndigoDeviceEndpoint.__init__ called with device: 439938875 (Guest Room)
Alexa Debug IndigoDeviceEndpoint.__init__ called with device: 439938875 (Guest Room)

[jay (support)]

Honestly, I'm out of ideas. Seems like that switch isn't behaving correctly. Do you have others of that same type and do they seem to be delayed in reporting status?

You most likely aren't going to want to leave it set as often as possible, as this is kinda flooding your network with status requests.

I just switched out the first GE branded ZW4001 ver3.0b with a slightly newer JASCO branded ZW4001 ver. 3.0d, did the excluded/include dance and no change. Then switched that one out for the newest switch I have (GE branded ZW4005 ver. 3.0e...same result.

The switch activates instantly, meaning I hear the click and the LED changes immediately. But it doesn't show up in the Indigo window until 2-3 seconds after I push the button. All of these switches are marked with the older Zwave logo, not the Zwave Plus logo, if that matters.

The last time these worked properly, I was running Indigo 7. Could something have changed in newer versions of the software affecting these switches?

I guess the only thing to do now is buy/try a new switch. Any recommendation on a bullet-proof/compatible (and cheap ) brand switch since my current inventory of 15 switches is now useless.

Thanks,

Jim

[matt (support)]

As Jay said, this might just be the way the switches work (although in that case they would have always been slow). The issue is that lots of GE switches don't send out a status broadcast that contains the new state. Instead they just send out a "something happened" message, then Indigo has to send a status request and wait for the reply back. A better choice for switches are Zooz, Enerwave, or Inovelli as they will broadcast state changes immediately and directly.

Let's turn on Indigo's Z-Wave debug logging checkbox (via the Interfaces->Z-Wave->Configure... menu item), then do 3 or 4 tests (waiting several seconds between each one). But first change the Poll Device State back to the default ("when there was activity"), otherwise Indigo is going to be sending a lot of commands continuously polling the state which will make troubleshooting difficult and increase collisions. Do the test with both the GE and JASCO switches. Finally copy/paste the Event Log results into a reply for me, and annotate which log entry groups correspond with which device. Also, don't just copy/paste from the Event Log window, but open the actual log file itself and copy/paste the chunk of lines from the test there as each line will be timestamped which will be very helpful.

Thanks, Matt, but I don't think this is worth pursuing. I took your advice and got some new switches to try, Zooz 71s in this case. Hooked one up and it turned on the lamp/module instantly, so the problem had to be the lack of the status broadcast. I also hooked an older switch up with a direct connection to a light (no module in-between) and it worked instantly, so they will at least work for that use case. I'll just relegate those older GE/Jasco switches to use with direct loads only from now on, and get new Zooz switches for any modules and 3-ways I need.

I guess I must not have been using appliance modules in my other installation a few years ago because I never had this issue before.

Thanks to you and Jay for the time you both spent helping me with this!

Jim