Today I learned...

that Z-Wave inclusion/exclusion doesn't take advantage of Z-Wave's ability to repeat. You need to be near the device when including/excluding.

Interesting. I haven't had to do a lot of inclusion/exclusion processes on my z-wave network but never noticed that.

[jay (support)]

NWI (network-wide inclusion) uses explorer frames - those frames are similar to broadcast messages and should be routed by all devices that route. Perhaps the device you attempted to include didn't have a routing device that would pass along the explorer frame?

In fact, NWI is meant to be used instead of direct inclusion exactly because routes would get messed up if the controller's route changes after doing the inclusion (because you moved the controller to perform the inclusion).

I have not seen anything like this. My house is completely filled with Zooz devices and I have always followed the recommendation to perform inclusion at the installation location so that the most efficient neighbor list can be assembled.

I have had some difficulties with wireless devices (moved them closer to the Mac), but none at all with wired devices. Some switches are 2500sqft away from the Mac in walkin closets......no problem.....I am sure hops are being made.

I am using the Aeotec stick.

This is not what I saw at all. I had significant trouble and inconsistent results in adding Zooz devices to my Zooz 800 until I moved my Mac in the middle of the house and THEN I could include devices on the far end. Now I have all of the devices I want included (mostly switches).

This is in the new house which we're about to move into, by the way, so all new equipment.

Right now my iMac is sitting on the kitchen counter, which is about the middle of our home, but it's going to have to be moved soon, and I'm going to have to evaluate how Z-Wave is working throughout the home.

[jay (support)]

Did you include devices in closest to furthest order? That is, include those closest to the stick first then work your way out?

If so, I suppose it's possible that your interface and/or devices just don't have much range or they aren't correctly routing broadcast messages or some combination.

[matt (support)]

Note the Zooz 800 Stick (ZST39) USB Controller isn't yet supported in a public release of Indigo.

I don't think that is necessarily related to what you are seeing Boisy, but for others on the thread I don't want expectation that the ZST39 works yet with Indigo. It will in the next release.

Jay,

I did exactly that (included closest devices first). I'm unsure why I'm seeing this behavior, but I'm going to do some more experimentation.

If inclusion/exclusion messages are being passed from device to device, then something is definitely wrong with my setup.

Matt,

Yes, you're right. the 800 is running on my system as a preliminary version. I didn't point that out.

Today I took a step back and started over. I reset the Z800 completely, moved the iMac to the back corner of the house where it will be housed permanently, then one by one, methodically started adding devices again. This time I noticed considerable issues communicating with a Zooz ZEN77 dimmer switch in a bedroom that was down the hall, around the living room and in another hall.

I then took out a Homeseer HSM200 motion detector and put it in the living room which sits between the halls, and voila, instantly the communication to the got better. I was able to sync it and the sync completed, whereas before, it would fail very early every time.

The moral of the story is to start with the closest devices and work your way to the farther ones. And if you find communication an issue, survey the physical space and add some type of motion sensor with a repeater.

I also periodically ran a Z-Wave optimization after adding around three devices. I'm not sure if this was helping or even necessary.

I still have more devices to include and setup, but this at least gives me confidence that inclusion does work if there are enough actors in between to relay the signal.

Today I took a step back and started over. I reset the Z800 completely, moved the iMac to the back corner of the house where it will be housed permanently, then one by one, methodically started adding devices again. This time I noticed considerable issues communicating with a Zooz ZEN77 dimmer switch in a bedroom that was down the hall, around the living room and in another hall.

I then took out a Homeseer HSM200 motion detector and put it in the living room which sits between the halls, and voila, instantly the communication to the got better. I was able to sync it and the sync completed, whereas before, it would fail very early every time.

The moral of the story is to start with the closest devices and work your way to the farther ones. And if you find communication an issue, survey the physical space and add some type of motion sensor with a repeater.

I also periodically ran a Z-Wave optimization after adding around three devices. I'm not sure if this was helping or even necessary.

I still have more devices to include and setup, but this at least gives me confidence that inclusion does work if there are enough actors in between to relay the signal.

Good news.....

An update on my previous post:

Despite my methodical approach, some switches on the other side of the house were still responding poorly to inclusion. I had to try multiple times, and once they were included, syncing them failed at different points in the process. It was only after doing it over and over that I eventually got each device to respond.

As a test, I moved my iMac with the Zooz Z800 stick up into the attic, placing it pretty much dead center of the house, but above all devices that are below.

The result is that the communication situation improved drastically. I still had sync issues with a few switches below, but once the sync finally did take, operation of those switches seemed completely reliable.

A couple of observations in this process:

1. It seems that once a device is included and sync'ed, it responds reliably to on/off commands, but problematic devices seem to have a difficult time both being included on first try and syncing on first try.
2. I have some rather chatty Z-Wave devices in my setup (notably glass break sensors which transmit their battery status every minute or so). It appears to me that any Z-Wave traffic that might appear while including/excluding or syncing could throw off these operations and cause them to timeout.

I read an article somewhere online that the best approach to adding Z-Wave devices is to do them in batches of 20, then let the network rest for 2-3 hours, then do another batch of 20, let the network rest, and so on. Does anyone know if that's practical advice?

The best idea is to learn how the Z-wave works — Mesh, neighbours, etc.

You are reporting fundamental "learnings"

NWI inclusion and sync will work even with secure devices in case of proper network configuration. The recommendation is simple - in case of any issues with the device inclusion/sync, follow the virtual route from the closest (physically) mains-powered devices to update neighbours - to the location of the new device. Unfortunately, mesh/route path management is non-existent in Indigo today, but you can use some advanced tools to debug (some windows or Linux computers with proper software)

And one lousy device on the way can bring a lot of issues.