INSTEON Thermostats

Posted on
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:47 pm
sparker offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Thanks Jay!

I'm working on building out a system based on this. It's a really cool idea, and gives me some ideas for other controls I was thinking about .

Steve

jay (support) wrote:
If you don't want to write scripts, check out the advanced thermostat adjustment wiki page. It outlines a way to accomplish this that only requires variables and action groups along with an existing script (you don't have to edit it at all, just execute it).

--
Steve Parker
X10 user from the early 80's
Fully converted to Insteon in 2013
Proud Indigo owner since the beginning... :)

Posted on
Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:35 am
FFS offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

I don't want to be a pest, but you guys usually answer questions pretty quick, so I'll assume you just missed my last post and have way more important things to do.
But, I was wondering if there is a way to read the Temp from the remote Insteon Waterproof Temperature Sensor hooked to an Insteon Wireless Thermostat (2441ZTH)?

Thanks!
M

Posted on
Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:37 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Sorry, that post did indeed get lost somehow. Unfortunately, that isn't possible to my knowledge. That module does not provide a command to request (or have automatically sent) the value of the external temperature probe.

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Posted on
Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:41 pm
cutmoney offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I'm trying to figure out how to use a 2441ZTH Wireless Thermostat as just a temperature sensor. I have it connected to a power adapter and Indigo is receiving status changes for the mode, but I'm not getting consistent temperature updates. When I do a Send Status Request, I'm getting:

Sent INSTEON "thermostat" mode request (received: all off)
Sent INSTEON "thermostat" temperature request (received: 0.0)
Sent INSTEON "thermostat" humidity request (received: 0.0)
Sent INSTEON "thermostat" setpoint request (bad value - ignored)

Do I need to change the mode or is there something else I'm missing. I'm really only using this device to get a secondary temperature reading to control a minisplit A/C unit. I'd appreciate any help I can get on this, thanks!

Posted on
Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:07 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

It's clearly reporting bad data. You might try doing a factory reset on it and then do resync.

Those wireless thermostats have always been somewhat flakey...

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Posted on
Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:34 am
cutmoney offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

I've tried doing a factory reset on it multiple times. I've re-synced it numerous times as well, it always syncs without any issues and reports 0 on all variables after the sync. I noticed in its links that it does have some device linked to it on groups 1-4 and 253 (or whatever it is) which cannot be deleted and remain after a factory reset. This was a refurbished unit I purchased directly from Smarthome, do you think there's something faulty with it?

Posted on
Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:46 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

I'm not so sure it is something wrong specifically with the one you received. Based on this forum thread there are others that have reported the same problem. Unfortunately, based on those reports, I think they are just buggy.

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Posted on
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:43 pm
kbx81 offline
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Location: Chicago, IL

Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Question: Are the thermostats (wired and wireless) supposed to respond to scenes? So (for example), if I define a thermostat setting--mode, high temp, low temp--in a scene, and then send an "on" command for that scene, should the thermostat switch to the settings defined in that scene? I thought that's how it's supposed to work, but mine definitely are not doing so. The only way I can get them to do anything is to send them commands directly -- and even then, they don't always act on them (usually, but not always. maybe 80% of the time?). I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong. I know these things are a little on the buggy side...all of my other devices (I have quite a few) work and respond perfectly all the time.

-kbx

Posted on
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:56 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Yes, they should. If you're not seeing direct commands working 100% of the time then it's likely that they are having signal issues. Are you seeing no acknowledgement errors when you try to execute the scene?

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Posted on
Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:33 pm
kbx81 offline
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Location: Chicago, IL

Re: INSTEON Thermostats

I'm not seeing any errors in the Indigo log; it does appear that they're acknowledging the requests. That said, the wireless one sometimes doesn't respond, although I understand that may be because it's "sleeping" to save battery power. Tapping a button to wake it up (so the display lights up) causes it to respond again and then any errors stop. That part makes sense. As best I can tell, the wired thermostat always acknowledges. Hence why I'm puzzled...it seems like they're getting and acknowledging the command and then not acting on it.

When I woke up this morning, the wireless one had reset its temperatures to 60 for low and 80 for high, which is definitely not what I had set it to when I went to bed.

Rolling back through the logs, I very, very rarely see communication errors with any other devices -- it would seem they're not having signaling issues. It's wireless, so I get that it could be flaky, but based on what I can see, I think the signals are getting through. I'll try to grab some log snips when I get home later today.

-kbx

Posted on
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:03 am
kbx81 offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Jay,

I took a closer look at the logs and the only time I see an error due to no acknowledgement is when the wireless one is sleeping. The wired one always responds and the wireless one responds if I wake it up and continues to do so for another minute or two.

It's worth mentioning that they seem to respond to direct commands (set temp, set mode, etc.) correctly, albeit sometimes it takes several seconds before the change appears on the display despite that the command appears to be acknowledged in the logs almost immediately. They just don't respond to scenes. It's very odd.

-kbx

Posted on
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

The wireless Insteon thermostats have always been inconsistent in our experience, so let's focus on getting the wired one working first.

First thing is to confirm that you don't have the thermostat in program mode which could cause unexpected results since it's trying to self-adjust.

Second, try removing the existing links to both thermostats from the scene and then recreating them with just the wired thermostat. Hopefully if it's some issue with the Insteon link database that will clear it out.

If that doesn't work, try a factory reset on the wired thermostat and then resync it. Once that's done make sure that the scene links are there (add them if they aren't for some reason) and try again.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:40 pm
kbx81 offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Jay,

Sorry for the delayed reply. Been busy with the holidays and I've done a fair bit of...experimenting...in an attempt to figure out what is going on.

Let's start with the basics -- I work in IT infrastructure (networking/communication is my thing) and have been using Insteon devices (and Indigo!) for about eight years now. At this point, I'm quite familiar with how the system should work, so please feel free to get as technical as you wish with me. :)

I followed your advice/suggestions first, but these steps had no effect on the behavior. That said, I've since tried a number of other things...and this is about to turn into a very long reply. (Sorry about that.) :) Here goes...

First and foremost, following your lead, I've been focused on getting the wired thermostat itself to behave...in some manner that would be/should be expected. While only keeping it linked with the wired thermostat alone, I've not attempted any further programming/linking with the wireless thermostat throughout everything I've done/tried. Also, I've been watching closely and I do not have any communication errors or other red text appearing in the logs.

To date, I have gone so far as to remove both thermostats--completely--from Indigo (removed from all scenes, removed references to them in actions, unlinked, etc.). After having done so, I factory-reset both thermostats. Before doing anything else, I updated the program in the wired thermostat based on my preferences and schedule (although I'd prefer to just let Indigo control it -- more on this later). After having done that, I've tried in varying order (I've attempted this a few times now): 1. add wired thermostat back into Indigo 2. add wireless thermostat back to Indigo 3. link wired and wireless thermostats together. After every attempt, regardless of the order of adding/linking the devices, I still see the same/original behavior.

Out of frustration, at this point, I tried the procedure in the manual for linking the wired thermostat to another Insteon controller -- in this case, I used button 8 on a KeypadLinc I have installed here. I set the thermostat as desired, linked with the KPL, and linking seemed to work. I changed the settings on the thermostat to something else, pressed the button on the KPL and...viola...the thermostat jumped to the settings it had when they were linked. That said, linking with another Insteon device would appear to work as expected.

This all established, I am still seeing other bizarre behavior that I just can't explain on a (at least) daily basis. Even with the wired thermostat programmed (times at which changes in the set temperatures are expected), I still see the thermostats jump to different modes and/or temperatures at seemingly random times. I don't have these modes or temperatures programmed or linked to anything, anywhere. The one pattern that I have been able to identify is that the mode typically advances by one when this happens -- so, for example, if set to "Heat" mode, they'll advance (just as if you'd pressed the Mode button) to "Cool" mode. If in "Auto" mode, they'll advance to "Auto program" mode. Of course, once they advance themselves to "Auto program" mode, a while later, they'll advance to "Off" mode (which has been just lovely to wake up to as the weather here has been sub-zero almost every night since Christmas -- I'm getting concerned about pets and water pipes!).

It's worth noting that I have these thermostats installed at my parent's house, as well. I tried many of these same processes/procedures there, too, just to rule out that it's something with these devices (since they're newer, I was thinking/hoping it was a firmware revision or something like that). They appear to behave the same way. In any event, I installed these thermostats for them about two years ago and they'd been complaining of behavior just like what I'm now experiencing for quite a while -- at first, I thought they were crazy, but now I'm seeing this for myself. I ended up creating an hourly trigger to reset the thermostats there to a known setting, which I'll likely end up doing here. When they work, they're great, but this unexpected behavior on a daily basis is just not acceptable. I'm pretty confident saying that these are the most unreliable Insteon devices that I have ever seen -- I know for sure that the Venstar Thermostat Adapter did not suffer from these problems. (The only reason I switched was because I wanted something that would work with the Insteon Hub Pro so that I could try out HomeKit...don't get me started on how that went...speaking of buggy Insteon products...) The only reason I bring this all up is because I don't think this is simply a botched install or bad device. I think this behavior is more or less typical of these things, which is just not acceptable behavior for any thermostat.

In any event, I hope all this information is helpful. I am happy to provide/share anything else regarding my hardware and/or experiences if/when needed.

Jay, is there anything we can troubleshoot/debug regarding programming the wired thermostat into a scene within Indigo? If there's a way to at least get that working, life would be much better. Creating an action to set each and every thermostat parameter works, but man is it tedious...

Hope you had a wonderful holiday!

-kbx

Posted on
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:49 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Do you have the thermostats in program mode? I don't have one here any more, but I'm pretty sure that they also have a program mode where they can do things by themselves. Make sure that's off.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:39 pm
kbx81 offline
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Location: Chicago, IL

Re: INSTEON Thermostats

Hi Jay!

So, as I've been playing with them, I've been keeping the auto-program mode off. The problem is, no matter which mode I select, a few hours later, it's in a different mode. This appears to be happening randomly and not based on the schedule I have programmed. Even so, based on the manual, it appears that the on-board program will only change temperature setpoints and not the mode of the thermostat(s).

Tapping the Mode button cycles through the modes: Off -> Heat -> Cool -> Auto -> Auto Program. What I'm seeing is that the mode advances on its own periodically, sometimes several times a day. For example, if I set it to heat, a few hours later it'll be on cool. If I set it to Auto (NOT program mode), a few hours later it'll advance itself to the Auto Program Mode. From Auto Program mode, it'll even advance to Off. In any event, you might say that I'm having trouble keeping it out of auto program mode. :)

I've been paying closer attention now and I've noticed this same behavior on the set of thermostats I have at my parents house; I don't think it's just the couple I have here. I'm really starting to think they're just plain buggy -- to the point of being obnoxious. I just can't tie the transitions that are happening to any schedule or program I have anywhere here. (Also, I live alone so it's not somebody else changing it, either.)

That all said, any ideas why they won't respond to scene on/off command from Indigo? They are acknowledging said commands, they just don't act on them.

-kbx

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