EUROtronic Stella-Z

[matt (support)]

How many Stella-Z's did you say you have?

And what wake interval are you using on them?

I'm still decoding the log file snippets, but the problem starts when 2 Stella-Z's wake up around the same time. The 2nd one goes back to sleep before Indigo can start sending it the status request commands (because it is still polling the first thermostat). Indigo still tries to poll the 2nd one even though it is asleep, which is slow because the Z-Stick keeps retrying the command trying to reach the (sleeping) module. This causes a backlog of queued commands which then further increases the odds that the next thermostat wake will also not be handled fast enough to catch it while it is awake.

I believe there are some things I can do to improve the race situation, but I'm curious about your setup so I know the parameters of the problem.

How many Stella-Z's did you say you have?

And what wake interval are you using on them?

I'm still decoding the log file snippets, but the problem starts when 2 Stella-Z's wake up around the same time. The 2nd one goes back to sleep before Indigo can start sending it the status request commands (because it is still polling the first thermostat). Indigo still tries to poll the 2nd one even though it is asleep, which is slow because the Z-Stick keeps retrying the command trying to reach the (sleeping) module. This causes a backlog of queued commands which then further increases the odds that the next thermostat wake will also not be handled fast enough to catch it while it is awake.

I believe there are some things I can do to improve the race situation, but I'm curious about your setup so I know the parameters of the problem.

I have 12 Stella-Zs (with 11 currently operational). I have set a wake interval of 5 minutes for each one. I am having to error detect and automatically reload the Z-Wave interface on an irregular basis. In the last 24 hours, this log shows the number of occurrences with the time shown in D[HH:MM] format):

Code: Select all

17[07:48]
17[05:37]
17[03:38]
17[03:10]
17[03:02]
16[22:10]
16[21:09]
16[19:48]
16[17:10]
16[17:01]
16[16:10]
16[15:54]
16[15:07]
16[13:14]
16[10:46]
16[09:57]
16[07:10]
16[07:01]
16[05:19]
16[05:10]
16[04:01]
16[03:45]
16[02:25]
16[02:14]

Another thought I has was to work my way round the 12 thermostats, using the button on the front of the stella-z to wake each thermostat 25 seconds apart up over a 5 minute period to evenly (more or less) space out the wake-up intervals. I will hold off doing this in order to be able to test the improvements you are working on.

It's good news that you think that the issue can be resolved (or made better)

Autolog, are you managing to keep your system up and running despite this?

I was all set to go out and buy a load of Stella-Zs and an indigo licence but this is giving me real pause for thought.

Autolog, are you managing to keep your system up and running despite this?

I was all set to go out and buy a load of Stella-Zs and an indigo licence but this is giving me real pause for thought.

It is now working well thanks to Matt putting in a lot of time and effort to tweak the Z-Wave code. I have been testing out his changes and I believe we now have the problem cracked. I wouldn't have any hesitation in recommending the Indigo software - the support level is phenomenal

I have had a couple of dodgy Stella-Zs that I have had to get replaced but other than that they seem to work OK. The only other (minor) issue is that I think their temperature recording can get affected by the radiator they are controlling. It hasn't got cold enough yet for me to see how much of an issue this is.

I am now working on moving my script to a plugin (it is taking a bit of time to get my head round all the concepts but I am getting there)
Here is a preview of the configure device dialogue:

preview_001.png (225.39 KiB) Viewed 5860 times

There is an orange flame that has suddenly appeared next to one of my Stella-Z thermostats:

OrangeFlame_001.png (100.62 KiB) Viewed 5830 times

I can't see why it has suddenly appeared

I have never seen this before in all the time I have been using the Stella-Zs - I guess I must have done something but what is the question

[Note: This happened prior to the Mavericks install, so it is not a Mavericks issue]

[matt (support)]

Somehow that thermostat device in Indigo got the hvacHeaterIsOn property set to True. That normally happens when a thermostat reports that the heater/furnace is turning ON, but the Stella-Z supposedly doesn't support reporting that so I'm not sure how it occurred. To turn it off you can shutdown the Indigo Server then open the Indigo database file in a text editor (make a backup first) and search on hvacHeaterIsOn and HeaterIsOn. Set all values of those nodes to False, then restart the server and it should be back to normal.

Somehow that thermostat device in Indigo got the hvacHeaterIsOn property set to True. That normally happens when a thermostat reports that the heater/furnace is turning ON, but the Stella-Z supposedly doesn't support reporting that so I'm not sure how it occurred. To turn it off you can shutdown the Indigo Server then open the Indigo database file in a text editor (make a backup first) and search on hvacHeaterIsOn and HeaterIsOn. Set all values of those nodes to False, then restart the server and it should be back to normal.

There was an entry for HeaterIsOn - it is fixed now - Thanks

[matt (support)]

Let me know if you see it again. If you do we'll try to track down how it is occurring.

In case anyone is interested, I am developing a script to handle these thermostat actuators more effectively in a multi-radiator scenario.

Are you going to open source this script?

If so, would you like me to set up a githup repo to host the project?

Steve

It is now working well thanks to Matt putting in a lot of time and effort to tweak the Z-Wave code. I have been testing out his changes and I believe we now have the problem cracked. I wouldn't have any hesitation in recommending the Indigo software - the support level is phenomenal

I only just noticed this comment and would like to add my own endorsement. Indigo is from a small company whose owners REALLY care. The firmware in z-wave devices seems to be the weak link where z-wave is concerned, making a program like indigo difficult to write. These guys are on top of it solving the problems one device at a time.

Highly recommended software. The best out there.

Steve

How many Stella-Z's did you say you have?

Matt .. if the Stella works out I am planning on 20 of them with a 5 minute wake interval (although it would be nice to be able to change the wake interval from an event). Do you think this would work or is this race condition likely to limit stella to a small number of devices?

In case anyone is interested, I am developing a script to handle these thermostat actuators more effectively in a multi-radiator scenario.

Are you going to open source this script?

If so, would you like me to set up a githup repo to host the project?

Steve

I hadn't thought that far ahead - I have now replaced the script with a plugin which when I have finished debugging it I thought I would get it added to a list of 3rd party plugins. I haven't spent any time looking at how to get that done yet.

[matt (support)]

How many Stella-Z's did you say you have?

Matt .. if the Stella works out I am planning on 20 of them with a 5 minute wake interval (although it would be nice to be able to change the wake interval from an event). Do you think this would work or is this race condition likely to limit stella to a small number of devices?

I'm not sure how well 20 @ 5 minute wake interval will work. We got autolog's 12 @ 5 working pretty well, but it is getting close to pushing the bandwidth usability limits of Z-Wave. The issue is that the modules only stay awake for a few seconds after they broadcast the "I'm Awake" message and polling out the values can take several commands (although now we let you choose which of the Stella-Z values you want polled per device). So if one broadcasts its I'm Awake message then another one does shortly afterwards Indigo has to tell the second one to go back to sleep immediately, or else commands start to fail because one of the thermostats will go back to sleep (and commands to sleeping modules take a very long time to fail because Z-Wave retries them with different routes). Add into that additional Z-Wave traffic you likely have and it can start to push the limit of what works well.

That said, we did tune some things based on the data autolog provided, so it does work much better now. Just no promises that 20 @ 5 will work great.

[Add into that additional Z-Wave traffic you likely have and it can start to push the limit of what works well.

That said, we did tune some things based on the data autolog provided, so it does work much better now. Just no promises that 20 @ 5 will work great.

So .. if you send it straight back to sleep, the software has to wait the full poll interval for a retry?

Does z-wave have collision detection or does it just transmit and hope?

Just noticed your post about the orange flame. Im using the Danfoss DLC´s and I have also noticed at least 2 of my 7 DLC´s having the orange flame.

Let me know if you need anything to track down the issue causing this.


Just curious, why not set the wakeup time to 15 min? I cant imagine a scenario in my home where I need to change temp every 5 min.