The Cloudiness of Things

Beggars can't be choosers, jay.. Better than nowt!

Jay and Matt,

I agree with your perspective. However, If hardware companies, like Nest, produce official API's that still require use of their cloud, will Indigo support it? Or are you going to look to the plugin developer community to support things like the Nest? In this model, Indigo becomes the hub where the spokes include Insteon, X10, Z-Wave, local IP devices, and cloud?

I know the details are minimal on the Nest API. Are you in touch with them to obtain further details?

Best,
Mike

[matt (support)]

Hi Mike,

There are several variables that decide if we'll develop and support a feature in Indigo. Having a public API is one of them, but just because there is a public API doesn't guarantee we'll support a particular hardware device, of course.

The Nest is a very popular thermostat, so I would like to see it supported by Indigo natively (as an Indigo supplied plugin versus a 3rd party plugin). But I don't have any ETA yet as to when that might occur, nor do we have any API details from Nest yet. We have initiated contact with Nest several times in the past and again recently after they announced their public API. We've never have heard anything back from them, but hopefully now that they are providing a public API we'll be able to get the details we need to be able to develop a robust Indigo solution for it.

[jay (support)]

As a general rule, I suspect we'll avoid building plugins that use a cloud-based API to talk to local hardware devices (and leave that to 3rd parties). The Nest is popular enough that we may make an exception depending on resource availability.

Hope it works out for all parties involved. I will def. get one if it does.

Jay, as a non-developer, can you care to shed some light on the reasoning between supporting a cloud based API versus a non cloud based API?

[jay (support)]

I think the OP pretty much says it, no?

I think the OP pretty much says it, no?

To a degree it does. Technology marches forward whether we like it or not and stuff eventually breaks even if it is a local API based on the operating system itself no longer supporting certain softwares? I realize that if someone has a dedicated system that is static and never updated the longevity is certain for longer, but not into perpetuity? I can imagine for someone who has a professional install that this would be the case, but a lot of us DIY'ers are always wanting the latest and greatest technology available in an effort to improve the intuitiveness of our systems.

Assuming that the cloud API stance is solely based on natively supported devices within Indigo and not a directive towards third party plugins? Not trying to get into some sort of great debate, but it does seem to me from my research like there is an awful lot of recent momentum and innovation that does tie into the cloud and not a ton of movement for devices that don't... but maybe I'm just not reading the right stuff

[jay (support)]

As I stated, cloud APIs are certainly usable by 3rd parties - we don't limit in that direction. I was just speaking from the Perceptive Automation supported plugin perspective.

The problem is that when you buy hardware you should rightly assume that the hardware will work until it breaks. However, with cloud based services, you're hardware could stop working because the company went out of business. Or suffered a DDOS attack. Or any number of other issues that have nothing with the hardware's ability to physically operate.

I refuse to chase buzzwords for the sake of them which is what's happening in the industry right now. There is a place for cloud services as an augmentation of your system. But that's quite different than requiring them.

Opening up channels to the internet where 3rd parties have access to my network is something I really don't like. You never know what else they transmit or allow.

When I install eg a network camera or other devices, I always disable "dial home" features on the device by
-assigning a static IP and
-entering a wrong router address on the camera.
It then is only accessible internally and can not make contact to the outside world .. or at least it is more difficult.

That will then exclude things like NEST etc in my home.

From that standpoint Indigo is something I have much more control over, although I have to trust you guys. At least you are not an anonymous large corporation. So don't sell to the Microsofts of the world.

Karl

[jay (support)]

I guess I'm not the only one who also sees the problem.

I guess I'm not the only one who also sees the problem.

Great post.

2 points. I'd be curious about the discussion of.

1. People used to say the same thing about electricity until it became ubiquitous. Sure having the internet isn't the same as a service company that is cloud based, but then again, having electricity isn't the same as having a service provider have some sort of maintenance issue. How far as are we to where the internet doesn't become a luxury or even a need, but an essential requirement? I would say, choose your provider carefully... if you have locks or cameras indoors, make sure you trust the service or keep those out of the cloud altogether.

2. While there are more "islands" of services both software and hardware based than you can shake a stick at, some companies are trying to bring these islands together. There are very valid reasons certain companies have gone this route. There are plenty of internet services out there that aren't necessarily hardware rooted. Weather reports (if you don't have a weather station yourself), google services, find my iPhone, the list can go on and on. Right now, a large part of my home automation system is very reliant upon these services for it to function properly... I'm sure I'm not the only one in the same boat. Having everything in the cloud gives a "friction free" communication (as long as that particular cloud service is working *Google*) between each "thing". Granted, it would be nice if this stuff were pulled down locally and controlled, even at a rudimentary level in case of an outage. While this can still be done with a central controller such as indigo running on a mac, it also adds significantly more complexity in setup than some of these "home automation in a box" type of deals for the average consumer.

[jay (support)]

1) Electricity is only ubiquitous because the government regulates and requires it. Will that ever happen with Internet access? There are a LOT of people who can only get extremely expensive and/or super slow/unreliable connectivity (think rural areas).

2) I'm not talking about net-based services like weather. I'm talking specifically about hardware vendors that require that their hardware have a connection to the "cloud" to work (either partially or fully). It's just an obvious attempt at vendor lock-in and people should be very aware of what they're getting when they buy into it.

More cloudiness:

http://cubesensors.com

[jay (support)]

Nice article that touches on these issues in the MIT Technology Review.