Pool Pump Interference

Posted on
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:59 am
pgershon offline
Posts: 409
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

Best I can tell, Insteon powerline frequency is 131.65 KHz

Posted on
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:48 am
jalves offline
Posts: 629
Joined: Jun 16, 2013

Re: Pool Pump Interference

Hmmm... That's a pretty low frequency. I'll have to look around a bit but most HF ferrite beads/cores should work to choke them.

Running Indigo 7.4.1 on a 27" iMac (mid-2017), 40G memory, 1T Fusion Drive, OS X 10.15.7
Jeff

Posted on
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:00 am
peszko offline
Posts: 294
Joined: Mar 07, 2012

Re: Pool Pump Interference

pgershon wrote:
I have about 75 Insteon devices in my home. Very expensive too simply get rid of Insteon. The pool does not use Insteon - but its pump is messing with Insteon devices throughout my entire home system. It would be cheaper to replace pool pump, though not my preference.


In my case, the pool was controlled by insteon devices and these were the only ones that didn't work. So it was not a big investment. Right now, I'm replacing couple of Insteon devices a month (or so) so the financial impact is spread out. I have over 200 devices and managed to replace about half.

One other thing that worked for me was an insteon filterlink. The problem with thouse, is with the power required and outdoor location, they would fail on my after about a year.

https://www.smarthome.com/products/filterlinc-10-amp-plug-in-noise-filter

They used to have high power ones, but I can't find them anymore, nor do I care at this point.

Posted on
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:51 am
Monstergerm offline
Posts: 186
Joined: Sep 01, 2009

Re: Pool Pump Interference

This company makes all kinds of power line filters. Perhaps one of those might work. I don’t understand enough about the specs which one to choose.
https://www.te.com/usa-en/products/emi-filters/power-line-filters.html

Posted on
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:35 am
pgershon offline
Posts: 409
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

What about something like this, the Leviton 6284 whole house block? Could I place it where the pool equipment panel feeds the pool house panel and block out the pool equipment altogether? I do not use Insteon with the pool equipment so this seems logical.

https://www.homecontrols.com/Leviton-Wh ... ock-LV6284

Posted on
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:04 am
Monstergerm offline
Posts: 186
Joined: Sep 01, 2009

Re: Pool Pump Interference

It is cheap enough to be worth a try. The only concerns I have are:
1) It was designed for X10 powerline noise and the X10 frequency is slightly different from Insteon. I could find no specs on what frequency range this device filters.
2) It is supposed to block noise entering your house electrical system from the street. But in your and mine case, we want to block noise coming out of the pool equipment breaker box from the pump. I am not sure whether this device blocks both incoming and outgoing noise. And I guess you need to have space for 2 dedicated circuit breakers to connect to L1 and L2 on the device.

Posted on
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:06 pm
pgershon offline
Posts: 409
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I think I can connect to the wires coming out of the 70 AMP breaker on pool house panel that feeds the pool equipment panel. There is room in that box too - the pool equiment's box is full. I willl let you know how it turns out.

Posted on
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:18 am
johnpolasek offline
Posts: 884
Joined: Aug 05, 2011
Location: Aggieland, Texas

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I have a similar problem at my sister's house and did a little research, which suggested adding ferrite cores to the lines feeding an irrigation pump that totally kills the entire insteon system as soon as it comes on... Does anyone have any experience with this type of fix?

Posted on
Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:58 pm
joekewe offline
Posts: 8
Joined: May 27, 2013

Re: Pool Pump Interference

pgershon, you seem to have stopped posting in September. I'm experiencing bad Insteon interference from my heat pump. Did you solve your pool pump noise problem, or just paused for the winter?
Thanks,
Joe

Posted on
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:18 pm
Monstergerm offline
Posts: 186
Joined: Sep 01, 2009

Re: Pool Pump Interference

To give some brief update ... johnpolasek asked about ferrite cores. I have tried them with no success. However, there are different kinds of ferrite cores available and it is unclear to me how best to install them. Do you wrap the L1 and L2 wires individually around separate cores or together? How many windings? Somewhere I read the cores should be installed between the pump controller and the VFD motor, which is not possible with Pentair pool pumps.

From all the reading I did, a good EMI filter should work. But most filters do not attenuate enough in the 132kHz range of Insteon frequency. The good ones are very expensive. Most filters are designed for blocking powerline noise from entering sensitive electronic equipment. It is unclear to me how well they work in reverse, which would be the application with a noisy pool pump.

I had some success with the Intermatic ET-NF RC snubber. https://www.intermatic.com/en/timer-controls/accessories/et-nf

After installing it at all three of my pool pumps I no longer have Insteon communication problems if only one pool pump is running. Running more than one pump simultanously still gives me about 50% insteon command failures. So the Intermatic device seems to help a bit and at around $10 is not expensive to try out. For those people with a noisy irrigation pump or heat pump it might be worth to try.

Also, if you have only a few Insteon devices not responding, you can setup some triggers in Indigo if there is a device not responding to an On or Off command. The trigger action can send the command a few more times, which in most cases should do the job.

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