Australians: What HA Tech Would You Use in a New Build?

I have the opportunity to recommend home automation for a new build on Queensland's Sunshine Coast and if feasible, basically every house system is under consideration. I know that some technologies I'm very familiar with are available, but expensive (Insteon & ZWave) and a house designer suggested a technology I hadn't heard of at all (Clipsal C-Bus). I'm sure that there are other tech common on Oz that I'm not familiar with. If there's an Australian HA site that lists them all, feel free to point me to that -- if not, here are some of the systems I'm looking at and criteria:

Criteria:

- Must have an API
- Ideally not cloud-based (but it's not a disqualifier)
- Indigo-compatibility ideally through plug-in, but I can hack basic functionality if there's an API.
- HomeKit is a plus (I won't implement Alexa or Google Home)
- Internet is NBN FTTN and Starlink, so connectivity shouldn't be a problem
- We can run CAT6A to any location we want and probably will want to use PoE for sensors, cameras and other nodes that might otherwise be battery or powerpoint powered.
- In all cases, nothing has been selected, so if we need a Mitsubishi HVAC over a Daikin because of HA and integration potential, we can make that recommendation.

Systems:

- Lighting (seems like all solutions are a micro controller behind a Clipsal Iconic switch?)
- Powerpoints
- Shades / Blinds
- HVAC (System hasn't been selected, but it will either be a multi-room, multi-zone ducted system, or mini-splits in key rooms. If one brand's controls are better suited for HA, then there's an opportunity to make that recommendation.)
- Security (Contact, motion sensors, smoke/fire and so-on. I think ideally, this is a separate system with API, but I'm willing to be swayed otherwise. I want to avoid battery-powered sensors, so this seems limiting)
- Door Locks
- Pool (Will probably be a container pool or swim spa. The ones that have been shown to me have an app. but I don't know about API)
- Solar PV & Battery Storage
- Per-circuit energy monitoring
- Rainwater, gray water and aerobic septic (I assume I'm just going to put contact sensors in the control boxes so I can monitor alarms, but if there's more available, I'm interested in solutions.)
- Cameras (probably Security Spy unless there's a more integrated solution).

Maybe some systems I've forgotten. Feel free to add to the list.

Thanks for the help!

Greetings from Melbourne!

I've got three Indigo systems operating across separate properties, and I've responded based on my experiences to date. Two systems were retro-fits, and one a new build. My approach has been sensible and pragmatic - do you really need to automate/have remote control of ALL devices? Will it meet the Wife-Acceptance-Factor (WAF)? Do you need to monitor energy consumption of each individual load? Etc!

You don't say if you are doing this yourself, or specifying a system for others to install and maintain.

I am using a mix of ZWave, Shelly and proprietary devices with non-cloud API's. With regard to Cat 6 cabling, go for it. In my last (new build) installation, I have run cable everywhere, but it seems little of it has been used except for PoE stuff (cameras, door intercom, etc).

My specific comments to your queries are:

a house designer suggested a technology I hadn't heard of at all (Clipsal C-Bus)

If you think ZWave and Insteon expensive, wait until you price C-Bus!! It's an older technology, requiring detailed (and in my limited experience) complex programming by a certified installer. It's also centralised, requiring all circuits to be wired back to a switchboard. My recommendation is to give it a miss! If you're looking for a "whole-house" solution you might check out KNX, but I have no experience in this system.

- Lighting (seems like all solutions are a micro controller behind a Clipsal Iconic switch?)
- Powerpoints
- Shades / Blinds

A major issue is the availability of devices certified for use in Australia. Failure to use such devices raises insurance liabilities, and potentially, on a new build, may result in issues in obtaining a Certificate of Electrical Safety (or whatever it's called in Queensland.) To this end, I have transitioned to Shelly and Fibaro devices, many of which are certified for Australian use. More recently, I have used a number of the Deta Grid Connect switches and power outlets from Bunnings that are Tuya enabled. I have flashed these to Tasmota, and using with the MQTT plugins with good success.

The obvious choice for shades and blinds is the Somfy system. I have yet to use these, but am about to embark on an new installation using these. Instead. I have elected to use the Neo motorised blinds with the "Neo Box" interface to Indigo. I initially wrote a Python script for this, but howardtp took pity on me and has written a plug-in to support this device!

- HVAC (System hasn't been selected, but it will either be a multi-room, multi-zone ducted system, or mini-splits in key rooms. If one brand's controls are better suited for HA, then there's an opportunity to make that recommendation.)

I have a mix of systems including an early a Daikin ducted reverse cycle installation. It's fitted with their SkyFi system that was so bad they discontinued it. I wrote a series of Python scripts to support this, and it's still in service. The latest install uses Daikin splits, with Broadlink RM minis issuing IR commands. Not recommended as it has no feedback as to status of each unit. Whilst the Daikin systems are great for air conditioning, they seem to be lagging in the wi-fi control area so you need to shop around!

- Security (Contact, motion sensors, smoke/fire and so-on. I think ideally, this is a separate system with API, but I'm willing to be swayed otherwise. I want to avoid battery-powered sensors, so this seems limiting)

I have always maintained that if security is important to you, it should be of good quality and totally independent of any HA system. If you wish to arm/disarm under automatic control, this should be done via hard wire contacts rather than any high level communication between systems! With regard to smoke and fire detectors, I believe that Clipsal now (or will shortly) offer wifi connected detectors, but as these are subject to regulatory requirements they also need to be treated independently of HA - unless you duplicate regulated detectors with others connected to the HA system!

- Door Locks

I'm using Lockwood/Yale Wires Digital Deadbolts, fitted with ZWave modules. These are supported in Indigo with the Lock Manager plugin. I have the devices with keys so that if anything goes wrong, you're not locked out! It hasn't happened yet, and the oldest of the four devices has been in active service for about 5 years

- Solar PV & Battery Storage

I have not yet committed to batteries, as they are yet to make economic sense in an area with a reliable grid. This may change soon if export limiting is introduced! I have three separate grid-connected PV systems:
- One 6kW system using 2*3 kW Fronius inverters with a network-connected "Smart Meter" that I "interrogate" and report on in Indigo using the Ghost XML plugin
- Two Enphase micro-inverter systems (one 3kW the other 6kW). There is an Indigo Enphase plugin that allows reporting
The reporting is presented graphically on a control page using Matplotlib plugin. I favour the Enphase micro-grid system as there's no large box on the wall and you can get reports on the performance of each individual panel (see screenshots).
For a new build, I suggest that you make space provision for inverter and battery installation, having careful regard to the relevant Australian Standards. I also query the need for "per-circuit" energy monitoring on a permanent "in-built" basis, as the global view available for the solar reports I have found to be adequate (training householders to run major appliances during peak-sun hours!) and for automating appliance operation when there's an abundance of solar power!

- Cameras (probably Security Spy unless there's a more integrated solution).

I started with an independent network video recorder (NVR), capturing snapshots using Python scripts to present on control pages. Again, if security is important, independence from the HA system is advisable. On my most recent system, I have been using Hikvision PoE cameras with inbuilt SD cards - again distribution of recordings increase the reliability should one device fail ie the recording is located on the camera, but accessible if required via the network. These cameras also have quite sophisticated motion and intrusion alarms that can be used to trigger lighting, etc on the HA system.

I'm afraid I'm unable comment on the other items your considering. However, as with security , I suggest that critical systems (eg septic!!) remain independent!

Hope that helps - happy to provide further info if required

i'll pretty much endorse mclass' comments above, with a couple of other observations:

- there's unfortunately a significant difference between options available for 'consumer' and 'enthusiast' implementations. Cbus, for all its crazy expense and expert-only implementation, will have supporters for dumbed-down, consumer friendly setups. Indigo is great but is not set-and-forget. There is also the consideration of how to hand-over the integration to a new owner, or renters, depending on the anticipated longevity of occupation.

-Personally i'm a great fan of zwave and particularly Fibaro for maximum stability - and hub-independent operation where required, and Australian electrical approvals. I love Shelly and have no doubt IP-based devices will prevail long term...but they are not 100% stablein my experience so i use them only for monitoring non-mission critical stuff.

- if its a new build, eliminate battery powered devices wherever possible.

- the current generation of Daikin wifi controller are pretty easy to interface to with a bit of python, integrates perfectly with HA.

- zwave devices will give you visibility of energy consumption for key devices - I'd be focused on monitoring key energy consuming appliances rather than circuits? You can always add a plug-in device to measure something extra.

- I share the view that an old-school alarm system is probably worth installing if only to ensure no insurance-related arguments - backup power, Australian Standard sirens, will keep working while you're upgrading the automation platform.. etc etc. DSC for example. Though I'd interface it to home automation, i think there are easier ways to break into most houses than cyber warfare.

@mclass and @agame -- thank you for your detailed responses!

At this point, I'm trying to understand what's possible with locally available technology, as opposed to what makes economic or operational sense, so it's possible that some items will drop off the list. I completely hear you about WAF. The owners are extremely technical and probably could teach me a thing or two about how this all should work eventually.

It could easily be a year before construction commences, so we have time to iterate the proposal.

I agree that some systems (HVAC, security, septic, pool and so on) are better left on their own, but Ideally, I do want them to have an interface with Indigo. Whether that's two-way (security armed away and Indigo turns off lights & tells HVAC to setback, or one-way (septic alarms and Indigo sends a push notification), as makes sense is fine with me.

Lighting & Powerpoints

ZWave makes sense -- at my place, I use Insteon for lighting and ZWave for powerpoints, motion and leak sensors. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't use Insteon at all. My concern with both technologies in Australia is that it seems you'd need to call an electrician to do something as simple as include / exclude from the controller -- since you can't even push the include button without opening up the outlet box. If it was my home, I wouldn't have a problem doing it myself, but would be concerned about leaving that as the situation for even the most technically-minded person. I assume there are electricians that have HA experience and won't freak out if they get this assignment. BTW, if you didn't know, in the US, the inclusion button is on the outside part of the switch.

I have never heard of Shelly and see on this board that it's popped up pretty much in the past year. I can see why you both are fans. If the tech was a bit more mature, I think I'd consider making it the backbone of this part of my HA. Not having to open the outlet box unless the Shelly device physically fails seems like a huge benefit on its own. Am I missing something?

Given the price, I could see putting a Shelly 2.5 in the first outlet box of each circuit for control and energy monitoring.

Shades & Blinds

Thanks for the Somfy recommendation and also for Neo. Blinds are one thing I've never tried to automate, mainly because as a retrofit, it seems very difficult and clunky looking.

HVAC

Will continue research on this. I saw Daikin has an API as an option with one of their systems. That seems superior to one of the IR controllers. I have a cheap version of that now on my one minisplit.

Security / Fire / etc.

Agree on separate system. Is DSC the way to go, or is it just one example?

Door Locks

I use Yale as well. Fine.

Solar PV & Batteries

I use Enphase as well and installed a 17kW myself. Unfortunately, my controller is ancient and doesn't work with the Enphase plugin. I think there are shading issues, so won't be surprised if that's recommended by all. Good point on allowing enough room for inverters / batteries and so on.

Whole House Energy Monitoring

Yeah, I hear both of you, but I have it, I like it and think it's useful. I saw that Clipsal has WISER, but it also looks expensive, plus you need permission to use the API and it costs $15/month. If we wind up selecting something more reasonable getting only major circuits, I expect that will be fine.

What I have now is an attachment to this message.

Thanks again for your assistance. I'm going to do some more research based on your recommendations and I'm off to learn more about Shelly -- for my own use, if nothing else.

At this point, I'm trying to understand what's possible with locally available technology, as opposed to what makes economic or operational sense, so it's possible that some items will drop off the list. I completely hear you about WAF. The owners are extremely technical and probably could teach me a thing or two about how this all should work eventually.

If you go for deep HA integration as opposed to simple lighting automation etc, someone fairly technical is going to need to manage the system, whether thats the owners or a third party...technical owners therefore widens your options. Things like software upgrades often break integrations, some of which are likely reverse engineered rather than supported APIs and so ongoing tweaking is needed. For simpler automations of something like zwave that need to run year-to-year with little or no intervention, I would look closely at something like a VERA device, which is pretty consumer-friendly though nowhere as powerful or flexible as platforms like Indigo.

ZWave makes sense -- at my place, I use Insteon for lighting and ZWave for powerpoints, motion and leak sensors. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't use Insteon at all. My concern with both technologies in Australia is that it seems you'd need to call an electrician to do something as simple as include / exclude from the controller -- since you can't even push the include button without opening up the outlet box. If it was my home, I wouldn't have a problem doing it myself, but would be concerned about leaving that as the situation for even the most technically-minded person. I assume there are electricians that have HA experience and won't freak out if they get this assignment. BTW, if you didn't know, in the US, the inclusion button is on the outside part of the switch.

I have never heard of Shelly and see on this board that it's popped up pretty much in the past year. I can see why you both are fans. If the tech was a bit more mature, I think I'd consider making it the backbone of this part of my HA. Not having to open the outlet box unless the Shelly device physically fails seems like a huge benefit on its own. Am I missing something?

Given the price, I could see putting a Shelly 2.5 in the first outlet box of each circuit for control and energy monitoring.

There is definitely no need to have an electrician to do a network include/exclude with a hardwired zwave device, nor is it necessary to access the zwave device behind the switchplate (as you would appreciate but other readers may not, Australian switches don't conventionally have enclosures like the US/EU...the wiring just hangs in the wall cavity behind a plate). Refer to eg a Fibaro module for the switch-press sequence required to include/exclude.... The Shelly therefore has no advantage in this regard. Its actually a pain with the Shelly... I've observed them being accidentally factory reset through frantic switch pressing....

Having said this, no run of the mill sparkie will have a clue about including zwave devices. I've always had to work closely with a sparkie to do the physical install and take it from there.

Regarding monitoring circuits, the Shelly (or z-wave device) will only monitor the outlet it is switching, installing at the first GPO in a circuit won't achieve what you describe. There are DIN-rail mounted zwave (and Shelly - though not sure if AU-ticked) devices that would be installed in your switchboard will achieve this if you really need it.In rural Australia, two-phase power is common and I can monitor each phase independently via the smart meter, though each is a few circuits.[/quote]

Shades & Blinds

Thanks for the Somfy recommendation and also for Neo. Blinds are one thing I've never tried to automate, mainly because as a retrofit, it seems very difficult and clunky looking.

The Australian Motolux brand is also good and readily available here....especially if you were to run a control cable to each.

HVAC

Will continue research on this. I saw Daikin has an API as an option with one of their systems. That seems superior to one of the IR controllers. I have a cheap version of that now on my one minisplit.

Yes the WIFI module is readily available. make sure you google the integration - the original 'A' model is easier to interface because it didn't require authentication but still possible on the others. Aside from the IR issues, Broadlink is now a locked down platform so rule that out.

Security / Fire / etc.

Agree on separate system. Is DSC the way to go, or is it just one example?

I vouch for DSC is because it is simple to interface to HA by plugging in a third party Envisalink board (be sure to use the old compatible power-series, not neo). No need to use the Envisalink cloud service, it just opens an API on the LAN for an otherwise dumb system. The alarms are antiquated but solid and are also readily available in this market unlike most others mentioned in HA platforms.

@mclass and @agame (and others)

This has taken a lot longer than I expected , but Council approvals for the building site and floorpan have finally come in and we'll specify most systems in the next 60-90 days. I saw the property in October and it is a gorgeous location.

My question now is what has changed in the past two years?

- Matter, potentially, is a big deal and it looks like Shelly Plus & Pro devices will be upgradable to Matter "this year."
- I also see there are ZigBee switches and power-points available at not seemingly outrageous prices. I liked the toggle on/off switch on the power points -- seems more practical than a toggle for switches controlled by HA.
- Electrician is interested in learning more about HA and has priced accordingly. The labour for adding Shelly or whatever is quite small.
- HVAC is still an open issue -- lots of pressure to have AC only in the bedrooms, but if you go to all that expense, why wouldn't you do the whole house?
- The very substantial server closet will have its own Daikin mini split (this can still be changed, if API availability has changed).
- Seems like there are lots of connected LED lighting solutions available. I think the only periodic adjustments would be to change the warmth of the white light, but full color is almost the same price, so why wouldn't you get that? Are there any that already have an Indigo plug-in?
- TVs will likely be LG OLED, unless there's something more interesting available that I didn't see when I popped by Harvey Norman.
- The house will not have gas heating or appliances at all. It will have a substantial solar array with some form of battery storage. switchbox has been speced to specify which circuits have battery backup in the event of a power failure (which apparently happens once a month or so).
- CAT6 wiring is already in the program for the entire house -- I didn't do this myself, but there are many, many drops, with something like six drops for each room that could potentially have a TV. Owner says he has well more than 50 wired devices currently, so there you go.

Probably some things that I'm not thinking of, but I certainly appreciate your updates.

Good luck with your project .

As a general comment, my HA experience has principally been retrofitting to older houses and only automating those things for which there is a genuine use case, and with a focus on achieving a high WAF (wife acceptance factor). Here's my ramblings on the specific issues raised in your post:

- No thoughts on Matter (yet), other than "the only thing pioneers get are arrows up their backsides" - I prefer to wait and see on new technologies!

- I'm successfully using a number of Zigbee devices (mainly wall switches and dimmers) using a Hubitat HE hub with the Indigo Hubitat plugin. You're correct in your observation on availability of cost effective and locally certified Zigbee devices. I am also using a Bond Home device to interface Somfy and RollEase blinds to Indigo. The Bond Home supports these (and other) blinds natively and you can also use it to interface other RF remote controlled devices (eg ceiling fans). Speaking of blinds try and get power availbe at windows. As a retrofit, we are using Rollease battery blinds that require a recharge every couple of months for blinds that are used daily.

- I have found that "interested electricians" can be a handicap - don't let past practices restrict your ideas!

- My preference for HVAC is hydronic - I understand that you can now get heating and cooling using heat pump technology. I am using a mix of hydronic heating (currently gas-fired) and Daikin split systems. The heating is controlled by an Ecobee thermostat (with the Ecobee plugin), and a mixture of one Daikin wifi connected unit and another Daikin unit that I'm trialling a Sensibo controller with. During the current (two day!!) heatwave in Melbourne, my 6.6kW solar provided all day-time power for the AC with more available for export! It seems that all new Daikin units can be fitted with an optional wifi adapter. If I was doing a new installation (as you are) I would opt for electric ducted reverse cycle HVAC, and make sure there's excellent insulation. You may also consider ceiling fans (use reversible DC fans with remote control that can interface with Indigo)

- I have just replaced 80 (!) incandescent downlights throughout our current house with simple led downlights ($A5.50 each for switched colour selection units!) and have added zigbee and/or Shelly switches and dimmers where the use case exists. I wonder at the need for colour changing/individual control of luminaires, other than for bragging rights!

- I use a (relatively simple) HiSense smart TV with a Sonos Beam sound bar. Using the Sonos plug in I have remote on/off control of the TV but that's it.

- I have a 6.6kW solar system using Enphase micro-inverters. My selection of micro-inverters was based on unavailable shading issues, but this is my third Enphase install and have enjoyed the ability to monitor the system at the panel level using the Indigo Enphase plugin. And you can plot the system performance using the Matplot plugin (see attached screen shots!). I have reserved space for future batteries and an essential circuit switchboard, but have yet to be convinced of the economic benefits (we enjoy a reliable grid supply!)

- CAT6 wiring seems a bit over the top. I am now using a very limited number of hard wired devices, and in one instance have put a switch in one location where one drop was insufficient. I have also had success with "splitters" that allow two devices to share a single CAT6 cable.

- CAT6 wiring seems a bit over the top. I am now using a very limited number of hard wired devices, and in one instance have put a switch in one location where one drop was insufficient. I have also had success with "splitters" that allow two devices to share a single CAT6 cable.

As a general rule, for best practice in networking, anything that CAN be hardwired (Ethernet) SHOULD be hardwired.

Hi,

I would ditto some of the comments here

Z-wave versus Shelly.
I think Z-wave is clearly more mature, with longevity of units field tested and appropriate certification, and not flakey. (although should add have no understanding of Shelly’s level of certification)
I have had a large number of largely Fibaro Dimmers/Relays working well for close to 5 years plus now. A couple have died with water (AC techs left a tile pushed back after they were done!) and probably surges/lightning. They have always remained ‘self-contained’ expanded and black inside in that their death hasn’t been a fire risk or otherwise. Something that their certification includes I understand
Z-wave also has lower standby watt usage.

I think you need to be very wary about units going into a potentially hot, wall space surrounded by insulation/timber…

Another benefit of Cat 6 is to use for POE as very useful. Plenty of POE to 12V, or 5V USB adapters that work really well and solve 2 issues for a multitude of devices.
Also would add need to run Cat6 to ceiling for wifi AP units ideally, and/or cameras where POE obviously is very useful.


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@mclass

Thanks for the reminder on hydronic -- the engineers consulted with Stiebel-Eltron who said that they would be concerned about excessive indoor humidity for predominantly cooling installations on the Sunshine Coast -- at least with air-source heat pumps. They are currently considering if ground-source would give the desired results and I will be curious to see the report on that. Otherwise, I think we're firm on multi-split AC plus heat pump hot water.

Today, I was copied on an email exchange suggesting that power connection would be between $30K / $50K, so the question was asked about being off-grid (fortunately not of me). I would think an off-grid system would have to be massive. Their current base load is 44 kWh / day with home office and pool. Occupancy and electric cars bring the average load to 86 kWh / day.

Back to home controls & automation -- if a hydronic system is feasible, I would be excited about an opportunity to reclaim the massive amount of heat generated by the machines in the office and to use the pool as an energy storage device of sorts. Even more-so if off-grid so large energy users are prioritized during the day.