troubleshooting failures

Posted on
Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:02 am
dherren offline
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Location: Shoreham, VT USA

troubleshooting failures

scenario: 3000 sq ft house, Indigo with CM11, 10-15 lamp and/or appliance modules, wall outlets, 2 RF receivers for 1-8 & 9-16 A code, plug-in powerline bridge

About half of the remote units do not respond when Indigo sends commands. Initially I thought it was because I needed to bridge the two legs of the power, but running the dryer and using a plug in bridge have had no effect.

Obviously something is eating the signal somewhere. I do have one large SmartUPS 2200 for servers and a couple of smaller UPS units for network gear which are probably eating some of the signals, but when the server gear was in a different location in the house (and the CM11 also in the same room as the UPS) I didn't have these problems. Something, somewhere, is killing my signals.

What is the easiest way to find out what it is and the least expensive way to solve the problems?

Posted on
Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:46 am
dherren offline
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Joined: Nov 26, 2003
Location: Shoreham, VT USA

additional datapoint

Some additional datapoints to my situation just described...

I've tested to see if the large UPS is the primary problem by unplugging it and having Indigo send some commands to the devices that aren't receiving--they STILL don't receive.

The remote appliance modules ARE functional. I've verified this by taking an RF receiver set to the appropriate house code and a remote control into the same room as the device, and I can easily toggle the modules on and off.

Ironically, _almost_ all of the devices in the house DO work when the CM11 is plugged into the _same_ outlet as the large UPS. There are still a couple of them that fail to receive the signals.

Posted on
Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:01 pm
morps offline
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Re: additional datapoint

dherren wrote:
Some additional datapoints to my situation just described...


I just got finished going through a troubleshooting chase too. It turns out a put a phase coupler in the panel http://www.smarthome.com/4823.HTML and that solved 90% of my problems. However, after installing it (and having everything seemingly working) all of the sudden one night, I lost the ability to have my x10 signals work. Imagine my delight.

What I ended up doing is walking around my house with a Powerbook and Indigo on it. I would plug into different outlets throughout the house and send an all lights on event. Then go see what turned on. Long story short, I was able to track down my problem. My TV. with the TV on, no signals could make it across the bridge (one leg to another). However, with the TV off, I was in great shape. I ended up purchasing one of these http://www.smarthome.com/1626.html and I was back in business. Even with the culprit TV on I was still able to send/receive events.

Hopefully, this gives you a little to go by. Good luck...

Posted on
Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:21 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: troubleshooting failures

dherren wrote:
What is the easiest way to find out what it is and the least expensive way to solve the problems?

I'd setup an Action Group that sends the _all lights on_ and _all off_ commands for every house code. Then, create a Time/Date Action that repeats every few seconds and have it execute the Action Group.

I'd then unplug everything that is questionable (UPS, all power strips, etc.). For the time being you might want to even unplug all your computer gear except your monitor and the CPU (and the CM11), which you could plug straight into the wall.

Now are most of the lights flashing everywhere in your house? If so, then start plugging stuff back in and see which ones cause problems. Once you find the problem devices you will need a FilterLinc (or some other X10 filter). If it still doesn't work with everything unplugged, then you might just have a noisy outlet that the CM11 is plugged into. This was my case -- I plugged my X10 interface into a different outlet in the same room and fixed quite a few problems. (I just read your updated post, and it sounds like this was the case)

The FilterLincs really do help. I needed 3 of them to get reliable signals everywhere in my house.

Regards,
Matt

Posted on
Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:12 pm
TYandow offline
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Joined: Jan 12, 2004
Location: St. Albans, VT

Newbie Problems - No success

I just had the package arrive with the Powerlinc USB 1132U in it. Two frustrating hours later, I can make things work in the two rooms near my Mac. I can't get anything to work one room away. I have unplugged my 3 other computers (except the Mac), printers, pool pump, and pool heater. No improvement. I have three different breaker boxes (2 in basement, 1 in garage to car barn) in a house with over 4000 feet (3 floors). I have NO experience with electrical issues. I don't know if we have a two phase or a 10 phase system.
What do I need to do next?

I am trying to set-up the Time Date actions for every 6 seconds to turn everything on and off. That doesn't even work. When I manually go into Indigo and turn all off/on it works with the two locations that are in the next room and work. I think my next step is to unplug TV's.

My main questions area:

What else would cause the interference?
What is the best type of filter?

Posted on
Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:34 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Newbie Problems - No success

TYandow wrote:
I am trying to set-up the Time Date actions for every 6 seconds to turn everything on and off. That doesn't even work. When I manually go into Indigo and turn all off/on it works with the two locations that are in the next room and work.

If you have signal problems, then the All Lights On/Off and All Off commands sometimes work more often because they require about half the amount of X10 data to send (the less data, the more likely it will all get there intact).

TYandow wrote:
What else would cause the interference?

In my experience, which shouldn't be taken as anything more than my experience, I've had problems with UPSs, high-end surge protectors, and A/V equipment. Things that I haven't had problems with (doesn't mean they won't cause you problems): refrigerators, laser printers, lights (including florescent), ceiling fans, desk fans, coffee makers, etc.

Here is a good support page on Smarhtome.com with some info:

http://smarthome.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/s ... td_alp.php

I tried to link to some of the specific support pages there, but I couldn't get a postable link that would work.

TYandow wrote:
What is the best type of filter?

I have had good luck with Smarthome's FilterLincs.

Regards,
Matt

Posted on
Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:41 pm
TYandow offline
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Joined: Jan 12, 2004
Location: St. Albans, VT

Failure Update

Thanks for the response. I have unplugged all TV's and AV equipment except the one my wife is watching, with no luck. I guess I can try the Fridge next.

If I get the filter listed do I need one for each outlet that is being used by a problem machine ie - computers and TV's?

Posted on
Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:53 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Failure Update

TYandow wrote:
If I get the filter listed do I need one for each outlet that is being used by a problem machine ie - computers and TV's?

They are rated based on the number of amps the equipment will draw. Although they have only one outlet per filter, I've plugged outlet strips into the filters to have multiple equipment filtered. You just have to make sure you stay below the rating on the FilterLinc. Make sure you don't have any X10 modules or your interface plugged into a filter (directly or indirectly) since the Filters block out the X10 frequency range in both directions.

You should try plugging your interface (PowerLinc USB/CM11/LynX-PLC) into a different outlet. I had bad luck with the first outlet I had mine in, but just by moving it to the outlet on the adjacent wall my signal coverage area went up dramatically. So, it may not be an appliance that is causing you problems but the wiring for a particular outlet or circuit might be noisy for some reason.

Given your house size, you might need a repeater or amplifier to reach the entire house. But filters are less expensive, so I would concentrate on finding any offending appliances first.

Regards,
Matt

Posted on
Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:05 pm
TYandow offline
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Joined: Jan 12, 2004
Location: St. Albans, VT

Some success

After unplugging the powerstrip for this Mac, but keeping the computer plugged, in, I was able to get the entire first floor to work. I tried the ultility room again since the pool is one of the big reasons I am trying this, with no success still. (what a pain to test - up and down the stairs from one of the house to the other.)

I will try the second floor now. Wish me luck.

Posted on
Wed May 26, 2004 3:13 am
pwd offline
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Joined: May 15, 2004
Location: SF Bay Area

Limited range beyond Mac

Hi,

I was having the same problem - I could control my desk lamp but couldn't reach an outlet across the room (which turns out to be far away because it was a different 110V line altogether). Even putting in a phase coupler didn't work.

Went back to the store where I got some of my Leviton dimmer switches (HomeTech Solutions) and, true to their name, they immediately pointed me to the Leviton 6288 plug-in noise filters. Apparently the power supplies in modern computers and A/V gear are great at absorbing X-10 signals.

I bought three (two for the computer setups we have and one for my A/V setup) - the outlet strips plugged straight into the filter block and the problem went away immediately.

I believe SmartHome makes a similar product that also plugs into the wall with a plug for the quarantined hardware to plug into. Check it out - it turned out to be a cheap and effective solution.

Good luck,
-Patrick.

Posted on
Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:44 am
wi_pedaler offline
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Location: Southeast Wisconsin, USA

(No subject)

To help identify the sources of noise (and signal suck), is there any device that I could plug things into - like a pass-thru module - that would indicate the level of noise (or signal suck) at a particular device? I know that my laptop power supply is a bad offender. I would like to be able to go around the house and test various devices to isolate the problem with a meter at the outlet rather than take the trial and error approach and plug/unplug everything in the house, watching a remote meter.
The SmartHome link had some devices listed there, but it seems that when using the Signal Strength Meter, you would be running all over the house to unplug, then back to your meter to read it.
Am I missing something basic about this troubleshooting? Sorry if I'm typing on a dense day. ;-)

Posted on
Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:35 pm
matt (support) offline
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Yeah, I think all of the signal meters measure the signal strength at the meter itself which means you need something transmitting the power line commands. I suppose you could: plug a PowerLinc/CM11 into a laptop, create a Time/Date Action that sends a command over and over, plug the laptop + PowerLinc/CM11 into an outlet and then plug the X10 signal meter into the same outlet. If on the same circuit there was a bad signal sucker (like a UPS), then I would expect the meter to show a weaker signal even though the meter and PowerLinc/CM11 are plugged into the exact same outlet.

Regards,
Matt

Posted on
Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:15 pm
wi_pedaler offline
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Well, I have identified at least 2 sources of interference: my laptop power supply, and my new Brother laser printer. When either of them are plugged in anywhere near my computer, signals from Indigo don't make it to their targets. Unplug the power supply or turn off the laser, and the response is fine.

I have seen the 5- and 10-Amp Filterlinc products, but would like to plug my computer-area surge strip into such a filter and catch everything with one filter. On the strip are: iMac 17" FP (grapefruit base), Epson CX5200 inkjet/scanner, Brother HL-2070N laser, USB hub power supply, electric pencil sharpener. I suspect I'm at >10A with all of those devices.

Does anyone have experience with either:
A. Filtered surge suppressor power strips, or
B. The 15 Amp Plug-In Noise Filter, Item# 4845ACF from Smarthome? For $30 I could cover the entire power strip.

Thanks for any experience or ideas!

Posted on
Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:22 pm
matt (support) offline
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I've used the 15-amp plug-in filter. It worked fine. Not the most attractive module, but no other complaints. ;-)

Matt

Posted on
Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:32 am
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As a tardy follow-up to this thread, I purchased the ACT AF120 15-Amp filter to abate the noise caused by the Dell laptop power supply. When the filter is plugged in, signals go thru (mostly) fine - definitely much more reliably than without. Next time I'm inside the power box, I'll install a phase coupler for good measure.

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