Pool Pump Interference

Posted on
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:59 am
pgershon offline
Posts: 433
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

Best I can tell, Insteon powerline frequency is 131.65 KHz

Posted on
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:48 am
jalves offline
Posts: 679
Joined: Jun 16, 2013

Re: Pool Pump Interference

Hmmm... That's a pretty low frequency. I'll have to look around a bit but most HF ferrite beads/cores should work to choke them.

Running Indigo 2022.1 on a 24" iMac M1), OS X 12.4
Jeff

Posted on
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:00 am
peszko offline
Posts: 304
Joined: Mar 07, 2012

Re: Pool Pump Interference

pgershon wrote:
I have about 75 Insteon devices in my home. Very expensive too simply get rid of Insteon. The pool does not use Insteon - but its pump is messing with Insteon devices throughout my entire home system. It would be cheaper to replace pool pump, though not my preference.


In my case, the pool was controlled by insteon devices and these were the only ones that didn't work. So it was not a big investment. Right now, I'm replacing couple of Insteon devices a month (or so) so the financial impact is spread out. I have over 200 devices and managed to replace about half.

One other thing that worked for me was an insteon filterlink. The problem with thouse, is with the power required and outdoor location, they would fail on my after about a year.

https://www.smarthome.com/products/filterlinc-10-amp-plug-in-noise-filter

They used to have high power ones, but I can't find them anymore, nor do I care at this point.

Posted on
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:51 am
Monstergerm offline
Posts: 221
Joined: Sep 01, 2009

Re: Pool Pump Interference

This company makes all kinds of power line filters. Perhaps one of those might work. I don’t understand enough about the specs which one to choose.
https://www.te.com/usa-en/products/emi-filters/power-line-filters.html

Posted on
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:35 am
pgershon offline
Posts: 433
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

What about something like this, the Leviton 6284 whole house block? Could I place it where the pool equipment panel feeds the pool house panel and block out the pool equipment altogether? I do not use Insteon with the pool equipment so this seems logical.

https://www.homecontrols.com/Leviton-Wh ... ock-LV6284

Posted on
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:04 am
Monstergerm offline
Posts: 221
Joined: Sep 01, 2009

Re: Pool Pump Interference

It is cheap enough to be worth a try. The only concerns I have are:
1) It was designed for X10 powerline noise and the X10 frequency is slightly different from Insteon. I could find no specs on what frequency range this device filters.
2) It is supposed to block noise entering your house electrical system from the street. But in your and mine case, we want to block noise coming out of the pool equipment breaker box from the pump. I am not sure whether this device blocks both incoming and outgoing noise. And I guess you need to have space for 2 dedicated circuit breakers to connect to L1 and L2 on the device.

Posted on
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:06 pm
pgershon offline
Posts: 433
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I think I can connect to the wires coming out of the 70 AMP breaker on pool house panel that feeds the pool equipment panel. There is room in that box too - the pool equiment's box is full. I willl let you know how it turns out.

Posted on
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:18 am
johnpolasek offline
Posts: 899
Joined: Aug 05, 2011
Location: Aggieland, Texas

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I have a similar problem at my sister's house and did a little research, which suggested adding ferrite cores to the lines feeding an irrigation pump that totally kills the entire insteon system as soon as it comes on... Does anyone have any experience with this type of fix?

Posted on
Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:58 pm
joekewe offline
Posts: 9
Joined: May 27, 2013

Re: Pool Pump Interference

pgershon, you seem to have stopped posting in September. I'm experiencing bad Insteon interference from my heat pump. Did you solve your pool pump noise problem, or just paused for the winter?
Thanks,
Joe

Posted on
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:18 pm
Monstergerm offline
Posts: 221
Joined: Sep 01, 2009

Re: Pool Pump Interference

To give some brief update ... johnpolasek asked about ferrite cores. I have tried them with no success. However, there are different kinds of ferrite cores available and it is unclear to me how best to install them. Do you wrap the L1 and L2 wires individually around separate cores or together? How many windings? Somewhere I read the cores should be installed between the pump controller and the VFD motor, which is not possible with Pentair pool pumps.

From all the reading I did, a good EMI filter should work. But most filters do not attenuate enough in the 132kHz range of Insteon frequency. The good ones are very expensive. Most filters are designed for blocking powerline noise from entering sensitive electronic equipment. It is unclear to me how well they work in reverse, which would be the application with a noisy pool pump.

I had some success with the Intermatic ET-NF RC snubber. https://www.intermatic.com/en/timer-controls/accessories/et-nf

After installing it at all three of my pool pumps I no longer have Insteon communication problems if only one pool pump is running. Running more than one pump simultanously still gives me about 50% insteon command failures. So the Intermatic device seems to help a bit and at around $10 is not expensive to try out. For those people with a noisy irrigation pump or heat pump it might be worth to try.

Also, if you have only a few Insteon devices not responding, you can setup some triggers in Indigo if there is a device not responding to an On or Off command. The trigger action can send the command a few more times, which in most cases should do the job.

Posted on
Sat May 28, 2022 10:14 am
pgershon offline
Posts: 433
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I realize this is an old thread but its summer season and the pool pup interference is back and better than ever. This year I have seen the pool pump (500 feet away) interfering with my basement lights, not just the insteon but causing my LED overhead lights to flicker periodically. Had the issue last year when the LED bulbs went in, but noticed this year much more because I spend time in basement on Peloton and there was no issue until pool pump started.

Where did you install the Intermatic ET-NF RC? I bought one two years ago with minimal success fixing my insteon issues, but I am not sure I put in right place? My pool pump is Pentair VS pump 230 volts, and it goes into a GFCI breaker. Do I install ET-NF at pump or at breaker?

Posted on
Sat May 28, 2022 10:56 am
Monstergerm offline
Posts: 221
Joined: Sep 01, 2009

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I installed the ET-NF at the breakers in the IntelliTouch enclosure.
With Insteon now being out of business, I think it might be worth going to Z-wave for these kind of issues. Of course this does not help you with your LED bulb and it might be necessary to get a whole new pump, but this is very expensive.

Posted on
Sat May 28, 2022 11:15 am
pgershon offline
Posts: 433
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I have actually been replacing Insteon switches as they break (about a 7 year lifespan it seems, plus or minus) with Kasa by TP-Link (IP switches). Not sure yet about long term reliability but they work well with Indigo and my home internet wireless is pretty robust. As you said, does not help with the LED bulbs. Pump is on its 13th year so at some point probably need to replace, but not is a rush.

When you installed the ET=NT, did what poles did you run the two wires between? In series on the two phases, on one phase, or across? Its been two years since I looked at this so my question may be slightly off, but I recall I was uncertain of best way.

Posted on
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:03 pm
pgershon offline
Posts: 433
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pool Pump Interference

I did a bit more investigation into the LED flicker that came from pool pump. As it turns out, the Insteon dimmers reduce the voltage that goes to the fixture from 120v to 105v. I checked on several circuits in my house and confirmed the similar result. The LED bulbs I have (Sunco from Amazon) work fine at 105v as long as the pool pump is not running and generating noise on the electric line. But with the noise, the LED bulbs periodically flicker at 105V (and it is random). As soon as I put a TP-Link Kara dimmer on the same circuit, the flicker went away and voltage to the fixture was 120v.

Bot sure if anyone else needs this info, but I thought I would share. Just one more reason o get the Insteon dimmers out, even before they break. Unfortunately, I am still at a loss trying to eliminate the pool pump interference, ET=NT not helping at all this year.

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