INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Posted on
Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:12 pm
Perry The Cynic offline
Posts: 836
Joined: Apr 07, 2008

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

xgeek wrote:
matt (support) wrote:
The behavior of sending the multiple messages is a "feature" of the leak sensor:

viewtopic.php?start=30&t=8926&f=7#p61569

There isn't a way not to log those messages in Indigo. Excessive INSTEON messages can cause commands to fail (network congestion/collisions), so it is often useful to have repeated traffic like this logged to help troubleshoot those failures/collisions.


OK, I see. So, since I already disable the email sending for 20 minutes at a time while the sensor is detecting water, I was thinking of not doing that and just disable the sensor itself for 20 minutes. I would then re-enable it, get the email, and disable again if still wet. Is there any issue with regular disable/enable actions on a device? For instance, if re-enabling it after it was disabled was not "rock solid", I could be worse off than the large traffic load of the wet device and its event log entries.
Thoughts?

Enabling/disabling programmatically seems to work fine. But I'd recommend filtering upstream (as you're currently doing) rather than turning off the device. You want to know that it's still yelling, and you want to know if it stops (either it dried out or drowned :-)). Home control is about knowing as much as you can about what's going on in your house; you don't want to blind yourself on purpose.

FWIW, what I'm doing (in a yet-unreleased plugin) is to remember when the sensor first reported wetness, calculate a scaled distance (1 minute or 17 hours or 2 days), and send new emails when that string changes (a simple string-changed trigger). That provides an automatic exponential decay of notifications (first every minute, then every hour, then daily). It's what I want for my house (instant panic, then gradual relaxation as we wait for the plumber :-)). Your intentions may differ.

Cheers
-- perry

Posted on
Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:54 pm
xgeek offline
Posts: 7
Joined: Feb 28, 2009

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

xgeek wrote:
matt (support) wrote:
The behavior of sending the multiple messages is a "feature" of the leak sensor:

viewtopic.php?start=30&t=8926&f=7#p61569

There isn't a way not to log those messages in Indigo. Excessive INSTEON messages can cause commands to fail (network congestion/collisions), so it is often useful to have repeated traffic like this logged to help troubleshoot those failures/collisions.


OK, I see. So, since I already disable the email sending for 20 minutes at a time while the sensor is detecting water, I was thinking of not doing that and just disable the sensor itself for 20 minutes. I would then re-enable it, get the email, and disable again if still wet. Is there any issue with regular disable/enable actions on a device? For instance, if re-enabling it after it was disabled was not "rock solid", I could be worse off than the large traffic load of the wet device and its event log entries.
Thoughts?


OK, Nevermind. I went ahead and tried the disable. It disables indigo from resolving the communication from the devices, but it does not stop the device from communicating and the entries in the log from showing up. Guess I will go back to just disabling the emails for 20 min and putting up with the log entries.

Posted on
Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:51 am
ricvieira offline
Posts: 21
Joined: Jan 21, 2012

INSTEON Water Leak Sensor - Not Syncing

I am having trouble synching the leak sensor. This is my first Insteon sensor, so it is possible I am doing something dumb. Nevertheless, my online research produced nothing that could address the issue. I am hoping you could give some assistance. Here are the steps reproducing the issue:

(1) PowerLinc: light steady
(2) Indigo: New -> Insteon (Define INSTEON Device window popped-up)
(3) PowerLinc: light blinking
(4) Sensor: pressed button for 3 seconds and green light started blinking (one short blink per cycle)
(5) Indigo: “Start” button in “Define INSTEON Device” window stays disabled (waited 2 minutes)

I also tried manually entering the sensor address, and using the 3 sensor's light patterns (short single blinks, short double blinks, and long single blinks); the sync process times out. :shock:

I may add that I performed a factory reset on the sensor, and that the PowerLinc unit is just six feet away from the sensor during the sync process. And the PowerLinc successfully controls my X-10 devices.

Any advice would me much appreciated. :mrgreen:

****************

Leak Sensor:
Model 2852-222
3541REV2.2

PowerLinc Modem
Model 2412U
0917V3.1

Indigo 6.1.6

Posted on
Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:26 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Open the Event Log window and try the define/sync process again (including press-holding the button the module to wake it up and put it into linking mode). Copy/paste the contents of the window into a reply so we can see exactly what is occurring between Indigo and the PowerLinc.

Image

Posted on
Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:45 pm
ricvieira offline
Posts: 21
Joined: Jan 21, 2012

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Hi Matt,

Please see below for the Event Log dump. After I put the sensor in discovery mode (green led blinks once per cycle), the "Start" button in the "Create New Device" window never becomes enabled, unless I manually enter the sensor address.

Many thanks for the assistance.

/Ricardo

Create a new Insteon device and explicitly entering the leak sensor address (green led blinks once per cycle):

Feb 14, 2016, 6:29:27 PM
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)

Feb 14, 2016, 6:29:56 PM
PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 11.CC.3F)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 2E.0E.D2, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 2E.0E.D2
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information
Error linking failed
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

Posted on
Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:06 pm
xgeek offline
Posts: 7
Joined: Feb 28, 2009

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Ricardo,

The leak sensors communicate via rf only. If they are out of range of a device that does not handle the rf communication they will never be found. Looks like you are using a 2412U interface which I believe is not dual band, meaning it communicates over power line only. Think you will have to move your leak sensor close enough to a dual band device to have its communications heard.

xgeek

Posted on
Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:17 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Xgeek hit the nail on the head. The modules probably aren't reachable since the 2412U is power line only (versus the 2413U which does power line and RF communication).

Image

Posted on
Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:14 pm
ricvieira offline
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Joined: Jan 21, 2012

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Thank you both Xgeek and Matt. I will go get myself a 2413U.


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Posted on
Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:21 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

If you have any need to control a lamp near the leak sensors, then you could just get a LampLinc. As long as it is within RF range of the leak sensors it will automatically relay the command on to the power line where the 2412U can hear it (that presumes you have your 2 110V power legs bridged somehow already).

Image

Posted on
Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:00 am
ricvieira offline
Posts: 21
Joined: Jan 21, 2012

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Excellent suggestion, Matt. I am a long time X10 user, and this is my first attempt at Insteon. Thanks for the reminder that some modules also do signal relay. And I do have the power legs in my house bridged, so I should be all set. Many thanks for the assistance.


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Posted on
Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:09 am
pgershon offline
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Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

I just had a pipe cap fall off behind my dishwasher after expanding from a freeze, and the result was over $100,000 damage to my house. I am going to install the Insteon leak detector and the Insteon water shutoff. I think it would also be a good idea to have a temperature sensor on or near my pipes. Is such a sensor made? I have one with ,y alarm system in my other house, so I know in theory cold sensors exist (and I see some online) but I can't seem to find an insteon version (I do see Z-wave, but I don't have that technology installed). Thanks in advance.

Posted on
Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:19 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

I'm not sure how well it works (it looks like the threshold temperature of 39°F isn't adjustable), but there is this I/O-Linc kit. I like the Z-Wave temperature sensors myself – I have some of the FortrezZ ones.

Image

Posted on
Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:41 pm
hamw offline
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Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

Very sorry to hear of your broken water pipe. I've put together a script that controls my water valve to prevent a catastrophic leak. This is different from just using a water sensor as it will stop a leak from a pipe anywhere in the house downstream of the meter. The valve is also controlled from Insteon leak sensors.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14955

This is the install thread for the water meter and valve.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9940

I'm sure there are a lot of water flow/valve solutions you could use, but this does work. Hope that may be of some help.

Posted on
Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:40 pm
lalisingh offline
Posts: 166
Joined: Mar 27, 2007

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

pgershon wrote:
I just had a pipe cap fall off behind my dishwasher after expanding from a freeze, and the result was over $100,000 damage to my house. I am going to install the Insteon leak detector and the Insteon water shutoff. I think it would also be a good idea to have a temperature sensor on or near my pipes. Is such a sensor made? I have one with ,y alarm system in my other house, so I know in theory cold sensors exist (and I see some online) but I can't seem to find an insteon version (I do see Z-wave, but I don't have that technology installed). Thanks in advance.



For critical infrastructure use:

https://www.badgermeter.com/products/380-series-btu-system/?keyword=380

The pulse output can be flow or btu. The modbus comms allows a host of other values to be queried. The flow rate/ inoming and return temps are some of the values that can be queried.

and for potable water:

https://www.badgermeter.com/industries/water-distribution/recordall-disc-series-meters/?technologies=a18ac00128de4d98a89abbcd6901594b&technologies=f8e88ae5090d409fa22255c186fbbed9&technologies=6535f405e23848e5abe59817e7211671&sizeunitid=d86d4cfa2b9b4d83af417427f1443512&sizeminvalue=&sizemaxvalue=&temperatureunitid=c344f37a39594cc7b4ef058c270dab9f&temperatureminvalue=&temperaturemaxvalue=&pressureunitid=6f9100fd3479400fac45d4ddc080545e&pressureminvalue=&pressuremaxvalue=

I like the granularity of 1 gallon pulse output on these meter.

The meter part is coupled magnetically so can be replaced in the field - like a twist top.

I have used both after going through many 'consumer' grade measurement and flow meters.

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Posted on
Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:54 am
pgershon offline
Posts: 506
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: INSTEON Water Leak Sensor

lalisingh wrote:
pgershon wrote:
I just had a pipe cap fall off behind my dishwasher after expanding from a freeze, and the result was over $100,000 damage to my house. I am going to install the Insteon leak detector and the Insteon water shutoff. I think it would also be a good idea to have a temperature sensor on or near my pipes. Is such a sensor made? I have one with ,y alarm system in my other house, so I know in theory cold sensors exist (and I see some online) but I can't seem to find an insteon version (I do see Z-wave, but I don't have that technology installed). Thanks in advance.



For critical infrastructure use:

https://www.badgermeter.com/products/380-series-btu-system/?keyword=380

The pulse output can be flow or btu. The modbus comms allows a host of other values to be queried. The flow rate/ inoming and return temps are some of the values that can be queried.

and for potable water:

https://www.badgermeter.com/industries/water-distribution/recordall-disc-series-meters/?technologies=a18ac00128de4d98a89abbcd6901594b&technologies=f8e88ae5090d409fa22255c186fbbed9&technologies=6535f405e23848e5abe59817e7211671&sizeunitid=d86d4cfa2b9b4d83af417427f1443512&sizeminvalue=&sizemaxvalue=&temperatureunitid=c344f37a39594cc7b4ef058c270dab9f&temperatureminvalue=&temperaturemaxvalue=&pressureunitid=6f9100fd3479400fac45d4ddc080545e&pressureminvalue=&pressuremaxvalue=

I like the granularity of 1 gallon pulse output on these meter.

The meter part is coupled magnetically so can be replaced in the field - like a twist top.

I have used both after going through many 'consumer' grade measurement and flow meters.


Thanks. So these sensors would be used to detect if large amounts of water were running, as would happen when a pipe bust. This is a more robust solution than the placement of simple leak sensors. How would I get the data from the Badger products into Indigo?

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