INSTEON Motion Sensor

Posted on
Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:16 pm
jay (support) offline
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INSTEON Motion Sensor

This topic is to discuss the Motion Sensor from INSTEON.

Device Details
How to use with Indigo

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:27 pm
Len Evansic offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

Is there any way to get a battery level from the Insteon motion sensor, other than catching a "Button 3" signal? I saw a video of the Aeon Labs Z-Wave multi-sensor on Indigo, and couldn't help to notice the nice battery charge bar graph.

-- Len

Posted on
Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:47 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

Hi Len,

It is more complicated with the INSTEON motion sensor, but take a look at this forum thread.

Image

Posted on
Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:45 am
Bollar offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

I am seeing duplicate Insteon commands from all of my motion sensors. Is anyone else seeing this, or can anyone point me towards the right solution?

Code: Select all
Aug 31, 2013, 9:41:40 AM
  Received INSTEON                "Porch Front Yard Motion" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Porch Front Yard Motion Heartbeat
  Trigger                         Porch Front Yard Motion Down
  Received INSTEON                "Porch Front Yard Motion" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Porch Front Yard Motion Heartbeat
  Trigger                         Porch Front Yard Motion Down

Aug 31, 2013, 9:42:11 AM
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room Motion" off (button 1)
  Received INSTEON                "Living Room Motion" off (button 1)

Aug 31, 2013, 9:42:41 AM
  Received INSTEON                "Porch Front Yard Motion" off (button 1)
  Received INSTEON                "Porch Front Yard Motion" off (button 1)


And BTW, non-motion Insteon switches don't send duplicate signals:
Code: Select all
Aug 31, 2013, 9:47:37 AM
  Received INSTEON                "Porch Back Yard Sec" on
  Trigger                         Porch West Sync
  Sent INSTEON                    "Porch Back Yard Sec" on to 100
  Received INSTEON                "Porch Back Yard Sec" off
  Trigger                         Porch West Sync
  Sent INSTEON                    "Porch Back Yard Sec" on to 0

Insteon / Z-Wave / Bryant Evolution Connex /Tesla / Roomba / Elk M1 / SiteSage / Enphase Enlighten / NOAA Alerts

Posted on
Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:23 am
Dewster35 offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

Just the nature of some of the insteon motion sensors is that they send out duplicate on and duplicate off commands, so it's not something you're doing wrong. You just have to have your logic setup right to account for it.

Posted on
Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:27 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

In this case the easiest way to avoid problems is to make your triggers use the Device State Changed type and not the INSTEON command received type. The former will only fire when the state transitions from OFF to ON, while the latter will fire twice if there are duplicate back-to-back commands.

Image

Posted on
Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:53 pm
Bollar offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

Mm, okay.

The care and feeding of these Insteon motion sensors is quite a lot of work. Maybe my next group will be Z-Wave.

Insteon / Z-Wave / Bryant Evolution Connex /Tesla / Roomba / Elk M1 / SiteSage / Enphase Enlighten / NOAA Alerts

Posted on
Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:59 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

Well, while I don't disagree that the INSTEON motion sensors have some special challenges, in this particular case I don't think this should be considered doing something "special" or out of the ordinary.

Device State changes are almost always preferable to catching raw commands IMO - because it's a single concept that works exceptionally well across many different device types and it allows us to present a more unified mechanism that hides details (like, say, multiple duplicate commands) that are often not that useful to users.

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Posted on
Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:32 pm
Bollar offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

jay (support) wrote:
Well, while I don't disagree that the INSTEON motion sensors have some special challenges, in this particular case I don't think this should be considered doing something "special" or out of the ordinary.

Device State changes are almost always preferable to catching raw commands IMO - because it's a single concept that works exceptionally well across many different device types and it allows us to present a more unified mechanism that hides details (like, say, multiple duplicate commands) that are often not that useful to users.

Well, my griping was more about the sensor itself, rather than Indigo.

In this case, I used "Insteon Command Received" for a couple of reasons -- mainly, the device has three groups, and it wasn't clear to me which group "Device State" followed. If device state follows group 1, I can change those triggers and leave groups 2 & 3 as Insteon Commands.

The good news for me is that the motion sensors are the only place where I've used Insteon Command Received - all the other devices are Device Changed.

Maybe a future version of Indigo could set up these sensors like the FanLinc and have separate devices for each of the groups?

Insteon / Z-Wave / Bryant Evolution Connex /Tesla / Roomba / Elk M1 / SiteSage / Enphase Enlighten / NOAA Alerts

Posted on
Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:17 am
ethanw offline

Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

Can I use the INSTEON Motion Sensor as an alarm sensor? There are some areas in the house that needs extra coverage.
I am thinking leveraging those sensor to write to my Ademco alarm panel through the ad2usb plugin.
Basically someone walks in the house the sensor will trigger a script that writes to the Ademco alarm to go off instantly.

Is this possible? Any pro any cons?

Posted on
Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:32 pm
berkinet offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

ethanw wrote:
Can I use the INSTEON Motion Sensor as an alarm sensor? ...Is this possible? ...Any pros any cons?

Yes. The ad2usb can create virtual expander modules with 8 zones each. You can then create Indigo Managed Virtual Zone devices with the ad2usb plugin. You control the state of those zones (clear, fault or trouble) in an Indigo Trigger or Action Group with an ad2usb plugin action. There is no scripting necessary. Note that you will also need to create zones definitions in your panel, just as you would if they were provided by a real expander board.

The Pros:
  • It is easy to add devices like motion detectors to your panel.
  • Devices can be logic based as well as physical. For example, if the kitchen light goes on when the house is empty, fault the alarm.
  • You can create No Alarm Response (type 23) zones for things like leak/flood sensors, a garage door left open too long, temperature too hot or cold, etc.

The cons:
  • Unless the motion sensor or other device is dedicated to alarm use, you need to be very careful with the Indigo configuration, especially conditions, to avoid setting false alarms.
  • Any zones you create are as reliable as your Mac, OS X, Indigo and your configuration/programming skills.
  • INSTEON motion detector battery life sucks compared with wireless alarm grade equipment.
  • Unlike Alarm grade motion detectors, INSTEON motion detectors are not designed to avoid false triggers (I.e. pets).

But, on the whole, if you can manage the cons, I'd say this is a worthwhile project with a lot of return for relatively little effort.

Posted on
Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:21 pm
ethanw offline

Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

Thanks much partner for the great guidance :)

I can live with the cons. This is strictly for alarm purpose and nothing else. What's the battery life span in one of those?
This is the best option to add a motion sensor since I have no wiring to the locations I want them installed.

Cheers and thanks again



berkinet wrote:
ethanw wrote:
Can I use the INSTEON Motion Sensor as an alarm sensor? ...Is this possible? ...Any pros any cons?

Yes. The ad2usb can create virtual expander modules with 8 zones each. You can then create Indigo Managed Virtual Zone devices with the ad2usb plugin. You control the state of those zones (clear, fault or trouble) in an Indigo Trigger or Action Group with an ad2usb plugin action. There is no scripting necessary. Note that you will also need to create zones definitions in your panel, just as you would if they were provided by a real expander board.

The Pros:
  • It is easy to add devices like motion detectors to your panel.
  • Devices can be logic based as well as physical. For example, if the kitchen light goes on when the house is empty, fault the alarm.
  • You can create No Alarm Response (type 23) zones for things like leak/flood sensors, a garage door left open too long, temperature too hot or cold, etc.

The cons:
  • Unless the motion sensor or other device is dedicated to alarm use, you need to be very careful with the Indigo configuration, especially conditions, to avoid setting false alarms.
  • Any zones you create are as reliable as your Mac, OS X, Indigo and your configuration/programming skills.
  • INSTEON motion detector battery life sucks compared with wireless alarm grade equipment.
  • Unlike Alarm grade motion detectors, INSTEON motion detectors are not designed to avoid false triggers (I.e. pets).

But, on the whole, if you can manage the cons, I'd say this is a worthwhile project with a lot of return for relatively little effort.

Posted on
Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:02 pm
berkinet offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

ethanw wrote:
...I can live with the cons. This is strictly for alarm purpose and nothing else. What's the battery life span in one of those?
This is the best option to add a motion sensor since I have no wiring to the locations I want them installed.


In my experience (I.e. YMMV) with the Insteon MDs I get 3 to 4 months life from a good (I.e. NOT Kirkland) Alkaline batteries and maybe 6 months plus with Lithiums . That is vs. 5 years for the Ademco and similar alarm grade products.

Another possibility for you is to add a wireless receiver (either directly to the panel or in a keypad/receiver combination) and then use regular Ademco MDs. Through use of the ad2usb plugin, you can then use the Ademco MDs for Indigo triggers, even when the panel is not armed. An Ademco 5881ENM sixteen zone wireless receiver
costs around $75 and an Ademco 6160RF Alpha Keypad and Receiver costs around $125.

However, note that the Insteon MDs will generally trigger faster then an Ademco. That is largely due to the anti-falsing technology built into the commercial MDs. OTOH, the commercial MDs will generally re-trigger more often than the Insteon MDs. So, if you want snappy lights on/off action, the Insteons are preferable.

And finally. While the commercial alarm MDs are certainly better quality, even basic MDs like the Honeywell 5800PIR cost almost double what the Insteons cost. ($65 vs. $35)

If alarm use is your primary need, I'd say expand your panel if you can and then use the new wireless panel zones in Indigo. But, if you have pressing HA needs or a limited budget, go with the Insteons.

I guess the good news, and the bad news, are both that you have a lot of options :)

Posted on
Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:48 pm
rjeffl offline
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Joined: Sep 28, 2013
Location: Lawrenceville, GA

Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

I also have noticed the double messages sent from the motion detector.
All seems to work fine when detecting a device state change from off to on.

Code: Select all
[color=#0000FF]Sep 30, 2013 9:21:17 PM
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" on (button 1)
  Trigger                         Workshop Motion Detected
  Sent INSTEON                    "Workshop Lights" on
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" on (button 1)

Sep 30, 2013 9:21:51 PM
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" off (button 1)
  Trigger                         Workshop Motion Stopped
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" off (button 1)[/color]


My question is about the button nomenclature in the log message, button 1, 2, etc. Does this indicate the "group"?
I see the following messages from the detector during the day.

Code: Select all
[color=#0000FF]Oct 2, 2013 11:07:02 AM
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" off (button 2)
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" off (button 2)

Oct 2, 2013 11:11:08 AM
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" on (button 2)
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" on (button 2)

Oct 2, 2013 11:39:44 AM
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" off (button 2)
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" off (button 2)

Oct 2, 2013 2:16:25 PM
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" on (button 2)
  Received INSTEON                "Workshop Motion" on (button 2)[/color]


Is this indicating a transition from dark to light, etc.?
Obviously the device state trigger ignores this, except may uses this as a qualifier or condition?

Is there a way to trigger on this button 2 transition?

If my understanding is correct, the detector will send a button 3 message when the battery is low?
Is there a way to trigger on a button 3 transition?

Just getting started with insteon and indigo, so all new to me.
Thanks.

Jeff

Posted on
Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:04 pm
rjeffl offline
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Joined: Sep 28, 2013
Location: Lawrenceville, GA

Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor

OK. Guess I answered one of my own questions.
I can see in the trigger form if I set the type to Insteon Command Received, I can select group 1, 2, or 3.

I guess what has me confused is the Button 1, 2 nomenclature in the log.
Might be less confusing if this were posted to the log as (Group 1) or (Group 2).

Jeff

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