DEVICES list enhancement request

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Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:54 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

We'll consider it.

However, I disagree with your specific assessment: tripped/faulted mean something different than closed in my opinion: a tripped or faulted zone is one that's been opened while the alarm is active. A zone is closed when all contacts are in place. So you need some way, again IMO, to show the difference between a zone that's "closed/ready to be armed", "open/not ready to be armed", and "opened while armed/faulted". My physical alarm system shows this on my keypads by using the LED: "off", "blinking", "on" respectively.

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Posted on
Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:15 am
berkinet offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

Actually, I agree with you*. I was thinking of the DCS plugin, which uses Open and Closed (the ad2usb plugin uses clear and faulted) and reversed the states in my mind.

However, I still maintain that Open and Closed are logical opposites. So, given the point you made, Open should show red and Closed should show green.

With that in mind, I would like to revise my request.
Please consider changing:
    if status string contains one of ["inactive", "disabled", "closed", "disconnected", "unavailable"] or if the state value is a boolean and false show a gray dot
    if status string contains one of ["active", "enabled", "open", "connected", "available"] or if the state value is a boolean and true show a green dot
    if status string contains "delay" show the timer on icon
    if status string contains "tripped" or "faulted" show a red dot

to:
    if status string contains one of ["inactive", "disabled", "disconnected", "unavailable"] or if the state value is a boolean and false show a gray dot
    if status string contains one of ["active", "enabled", "closed", "connected", "available"] or if the state value is a boolean and true show a green dot
    if status string contains "delay" show the timer on icon
    if status string contains one of ["open", "tripped" or "faulted"] show a red dot

* In fact, that is the way most alarms work. The circuit is normally closed when a zone is ready to arm. Where "closed" is defined as a near 0 ohm short. Then, when the circuit is opened, the short goes to the resistance of the EOL (end-of-loop) resistor - usually between 1k and 2k ohms. A true "open" circuit is usually defined as a tamper situation and triggers the alarm as well. That is to keep someone from just cutting the zone loop to disable it.

Posted on
Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:30 am
berkinet offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

BTW, Isn't this a bit more appropriate now :wink:
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Posted on
Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:41 am
berkinet offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

Minor change. On reflection (thinking about the ad2usb plugin) how about adding "clear" as well...
    if status string contains one of ["clear", "active", "enabled", "closed", "connected", "available"] or if the state value is a boolean and true show a green dot

Posted on
Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:48 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

We'll consider it. I'm still doubtful as to the general usefulness of the change - it seems logical for alarms (though you're still not distinguishing between the 3 states a zone can be in), but unfortunately alarms aren't the only likely devices to use open/closed. We knew there would be situations where the built-in logic wouldn't work as well as it could, which is why we hope to add the ability for a plugin to specify which images to use. I think what's there is better than nothing however and is probably the best compromise.

And, yes, LOTS of stuff still to do in the wake of Indigo 6 launch. That one is fairly low on the list given the length. ;)

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Posted on
Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:41 am
berkinet offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

Thanks for considering the request.

2 additional points for consideration... For Indigo display purposes, alarm zones really only have 2 states. Any open, with or without the EOL resistance, is also fault.

Regarding the meaning of Open beyond the use in alarm device states. I would guess that in most cases, Open is not the normal or, in some cases, desired condition. Consider:
    Doors and window
    Water valves
    Sprinkler zone
    Heater ducts
    Cabinets
    Refrigerators & freezers
    Washers & Dryers
    Gates and Garage doors
This is not an exhaustive list. But, in all of these cases, Open usually connotes a temporary variance from the normal quiescent (.e. Closed) state. Of course, context is everything. A garden hose bib should normally be closed, but the main house water valve should normally be open. Electrical switches and relays might be in either (NO/NC) state. In these cases, I would leave it up to the plugin developer to find the best route to give the user the means to attain a meaningful result. For example, A Phidget input device might have an option to: Reverse the normal reporting (open/closed) logic.

FWIW, the issue of a third state (.e. neither open nor closed, etc.) could be dealt with by the addition of:
if status string contains one of ["warning", "error", "unexpected"] show a yellow dot.

Note that all of these suggestions are designed to stick within the paradigm you have provided in 6 .

Posted on
Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:45 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

Actually, ducts, water valves, hot water heaters and spa/pool controllers - all would be perfectly normal to be open - I disagree that "Open usually connotes a temporary variance" because many I/O devices do come in NO and NC varieties. It's a matter of perspective.

Yellow universally means caution, so warning is an appropriate usage perhaps. However, error, unexpected, etc., all mean bad things, and the universal color for bad things is red. That's why we don't use the red dot unless it represents something bad (like a device error, or a faulted zone).

Finally, as I pointed out earlier, my alarm panel represents zones with 3 states (open, closed, faulted). My guess is that because the latter is harder to represent with just LEDs on hardware keypads (an open zone while the alarm is armed) most alarm panel companies choose to ignore the distinction - or at the very least make the distinction harder to determine.

Being software, we have no such limitations. Let's make it easy for users to see, at a glance, not only whether the zone is open or closed but also see if the zone caused the alarm to trip. That is, of course, up to you as the plugin writer, but if I were doing an alarm plugin I think I'd do it that way.

One last time, we'll discuss it among ourselves and see if we want to alter the behavior.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:29 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: DEVICES list enhancement request

In Indigo 6.0.19 (API version 1.18) we now provide an override so plugins can specify which device state icon is shown. Note we don't currently have new icons in the UI, so some of the enumeration selectors will shown no icon (like wind speed sensor, wind direction, etc.). But in future versions of the UI (Indigo Touch, Mac client UI) those icons might be available, so it cannot hurt to choose the selector that most closely matches the icon you want for a device. There is also a selector for overriding the icon to None if the default behavior is picking an inappropriate icon and no icon is desired. In the future we hope to also allow plugins to specify their own custom icons, but that does not exist yet.

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