TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Posted on
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:42 pm
siclark offline
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Location: UK

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

I think the issue is with the internal logic of the trv. It's how it decides to set the valve opening relative to set point and current temp. That should all be internal and not be dependent on reporting back to the controller?
I'm wondering about just doing simple triggers, if temp>set point then valve is closed. Then improving to be open 25% if temp <set point +1 etc.
Valve =75 if setpoint-1 <temp <setpoint.

Posted on
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:24 pm
bullsim offline
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Joined: Oct 17, 2013

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

I am extremely happy to alpha test. As we are struggling with the 6 we have and so it can only be an improvement!

Posted on
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:31 pm
autolog offline
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Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

bullsim wrote:
I am extremely happy to alpha test. As we are struggling with the 6 we have and so it can only be an improvement!

I'll send you a PM with a link :)

Posted on
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:52 pm
siclark offline
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Joined: Jun 13, 2017
Location: UK

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Jon. This is amazing. Some more setup and testing to do, and monitoring on the room temperatures but looking really good so far. The TRVs are turning completely off and the room temps seem much more stable around the setpoint. No more complaints about roasting! And I no longer want to rip them out.
Thank you

Posted on
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:22 pm
autolog offline
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Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Thanks for the feedback and helping with the testing :D

Posted on
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:26 pm
siclark offline
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Location: UK

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Thank you for all your good work so far, and the work still to be done

Posted on
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:23 am
richo offline
Posts: 158
Joined: Nov 25, 2014
Location: Pomorskie, Poland

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Hi,
I have just purchased a Spirit thermostat and plan to replace my Danfoss valves it it works better. I'll be happy to test your plugin as well. Do you have any new versions available?
Regards

Ryszard

Posted on
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:40 am
autolog offline
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Joined: Sep 10, 2013
Location: West Sussex, UK [GMT aka UTC]

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

richo wrote:
... I'll be happy to test your plugin as well. Do you have any new versions available?

Yes - I have an Alpha Test Version that is probably nearing Beta - I'll PM you a link. :)

Posted on
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:20 am
siclark offline
Posts: 1960
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
Location: UK

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

It's working well and going to be great. I have 4 at the moment, including one that replaces a Popp. Want to buy 3 more but the price has gone up. A few bugs still being ironed out, trying to prevent bedrooms being turned into saunas for instance but this is going to be very good.

As the spirit can part open the valve and keep adjusting it itself, it can keep a much tighter temperature range than a trv that is on or off and has 1-2 degree temp swings depending on whether it's on or off.

See below the valve being open approx 15-20% ( right axis) between 5 and 7pm. Keeping the temp stable (ignore my Mac crashing later that evening!)


Image



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Posted on
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:18 pm
IndigoSam offline
Posts: 182
Joined: Apr 14, 2013

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Is the plugin telling you how much the valve is open?

Sam.

Posted on
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:41 pm
autolog offline
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Joined: Sep 10, 2013
Location: West Sussex, UK [GMT aka UTC]

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

IndigoSam wrote:
Is the plugin telling you how much the valve is open?


Yes it does - there is a TRV Controller custom state: ValvePercentageOpen

Posted on
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:26 pm
siclark offline
Posts: 1960
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
Location: UK

TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Which I've just realised, means that as the trv is constantly adjusting the valve, as well as listening for zwave all the time, means most of my TRVs are through 25% battery already

Posted on
Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:39 am
IndigoSam offline
Posts: 182
Joined: Apr 14, 2013

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

siclark wrote:
As the spirit can part open the valve and keep adjusting it itself, it can keep a much tighter temperature range than a trv that is on or off and has 1-2 degree temp swings depending on whether it's on or off.

See below the valve being open approx 15-20% ( right axis) between 5 and 7pm. Keeping the temp stable (ignore my Mac crashing later that evening!)


I'm not completely sure what the graph is saying, but I think it ties in with something I'm unclear about on how the Spirit actually works.

At about 5pm the remote set point is set to 19C?. This sets the Spirit set point to the same value. The Spirit opens the valve fully, then very quickly drops it back down to, what, 10%-ish?
It looks like the temperature never actually reaches the set point, but hovers closely below it.

This looks like it explains my observations.

I have one Spirit on one radiator, in the same room as a wall stat. This wall stat controls the heating.
When the room is 17C, according to room stat, the Spirit is reporting 16.5C.

Set the stat to 18C, heating comes on.
The Spirit rapidly rises to around 23/24, so I had to set its set point to 24C for it to come on at all.

What i noticed was that the Spirit controlled radiator would be hot for a while, then become warm, followed by lukewarm. Checking the Spirit temp, it was around 23C.
Thus the Spirit was backing off the radiator, meaning the room stat was not reaching 18. That room was not so warm, every other room with full on radiators were turning into ovens!

I could set the Spirit set point to something very high, 26 say, but if someone changes it locally they are not going to put in 26C. There is a temperature offset in the settings, but that only seems to go to 5C, which may not be enough (I have yet to try this.)

This is why I was interested in the valve opening and how I could get visibility of it.

On looking in the logs I noticed the Spirit was transmitting:

Code: Select all
received "[device]' status update brightness N

Where N seems to be between 0 and 100. I'm assuming this is actually the valve opening percentage.

Sam.

Posted on
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:38 am
siclark offline
Posts: 1960
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
Location: UK

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Yes that is correct. The quick set to 100% is actually the plugin doing that, not native behaviour of the spirit.

But yes the spirit then adjusts to try and keep at the same temperature. Agreed in this case is slightly below the set point. Not an issue as could just set it 1 degree higher.

This contrasts with a normal trv or thermostat that would heat rad on full until set point reached and turn off, but residual heat in rad would push room temp past that. The stat would then wait for the temp to drop 1 degree before set point before coming on again, so you get 1-3 degree swings in temperature.

I had a lot of issues with these initially over shooting temperature until I started using the plugin but now it's mainly all good.

I'm also not sure if some of that was due to me having the spirit calling for heat but my main thermostat which actually called for hear from the boiler off, and where the spirit learns about rooms at all?

Finally yes, the behaviour of having the valve constantly open means that any rads on the same hot water circuit without any form of TRV will be on constantly and overheat rooms. Thankfully I have 4 Spirits on first floor rads which are on their own circuit with just 2 towel rails. This does mean the towel rails are on for hours longer than they used to be, but for me means the bathrooms get hotter through that, and means less need for more expensive electric under floor heating in there.

My boiler is a new one and adjusts it's heat so when the spirit is say at 20% then the boiler is barely firing so I'm hoping this is more efficient heating.




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Posted on
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:44 am
autolog offline
Posts: 3988
Joined: Sep 10, 2013
Location: West Sussex, UK [GMT aka UTC]

Re: TRV Controller Discussion Thread

Sam,
I can PM you a link to the plugin if you would like to give it a whirl; with the caveat it is an Alpha version heading towards Beta. :)

Also, in the device settings for the Spirit thermostat, you can specify a Temperature offset that may or may not help.

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