HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

Posted on
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:07 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

rlesperance wrote:
Is there an assurance that Indigo has or will integrate Apple's new app professionally ?.

Apple does not allow software only (like Indigo) licensing/certification for HomeKit which is why current solutions are complicated for Indigo. When/if this changes native support for HomeKit in Indigo would be a very high priority. In the mean time we'll do what we can to work with plugin developers to continue providing a bridging solution.

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Posted on
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:42 pm
wikner offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

Thanks. That would be wonderful. The current situation is quite fragile. As noted a few posts above I just, within the past week, got it to work on my home system. Today, working remotely via screen-share I upgraded my father's Indigo to 7.5, upgraded his OS to Big Sur, and then went through the same steps I had used to enable Home-Kit on my own installation again on his machine. The steps were fresh in my mind and even documented within this thread. Result: the log said the plugin was running, but the Home-Kit server device wouldn't turn on. If I can stay connected via Screen Share, I'll try deleting the device and creating it anew.

Sigh... It's probably all moot. I can't get my father to learn to say "Hey Siri" anyway. It's enough that I can control his house from 1000 miles away using Indigo Touch.

Posted on
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:30 pm
Doctor Q offline
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HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

matt (support) wrote:
rlesperance wrote:
Is there an assurance that Indigo has or will integrate Apple's new app professionally ?.

Apple does not allow software only (like Indigo) licensing/certification for HomeKit which is why current solutions are complicated for Indigo. When/if this changes native support for HomeKit in Indigo would be a very high priority. In the mean time we'll do what we can to work with plugin developers to continue providing a bridging solution.
Security Spy uses a ‘helper app’ that leverages Catalyst to get into HomeKit through iOS emulation, though motion triggers only, no video. This can be accomplished in Indigo with Perry the Cynic’s and CW4’s plug-ins, but the Catalyst method might be a way to get around Apple’s restrictions and replace Homebridge with something a little more ‘official.’ This only works with Big Sur, however.

Posted on
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:54 pm
Korey offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

See this thread

It works very well, fairly easy to configure.

https://github.com/oznu/homebridge-config-ui-x#readme
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Posted on
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 pm
lalisingh offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

For those of us using Lutron we have an official supported HomeKit <--> Indigo integration.

Lutron Ra2 is an officially supported/integrated with HomeKit.

The cost of the controller (Main repeater in RA2 parlance) is about $500. Each controller has 100 virtual buttons and ability to integrate 100 devices(Lights, remotes, relays, motions sensors, HVAC, Garage door). The state is reported to Indigo which is turn can be used to trigger action groups.

The Indigo/Lutron integration is supported by the Lutron plugin. It is also possible to roll you own integration via the published Lutron API.

I am completely on board with Matt/Jay's vision to improve the core platform and adding industry standard hooks to integrate with the best solutions for the task at hand. Indigo is serious and must have platform for those of us trying to help people live in there own homes longer, reducing our carbon footprint, living sustainably, supporting our physical and mental well being and of course convenience.

Smart home technologies need to be reliable enough to last a decade or more. Indigo and the Mac platform provides this reliability.

IMHO with an emphasis on humble.

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Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:18 am
Korey offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

lalisingh wrote:
For those of us using Lutron we have an official supported HomeKit <--> Indigo integration.

Lutron Ra2 is an officially supported/integrated with HomeKit..


I'm thinking thats the route I will go when replacing my Insteon. if I ever do..

Nice multi button keypads.

Also, it would be nice to have some type of Crestron plugin for indigo, all the older hardware is pretty reasonable on Ebay..

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Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:57 am
rlesperance offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

Thanks Korey ! Easy to say, but not to install. Sorry, time is missing for me. That's the point of my original post: have a simple and one step functionnal way to get this integration working for all of us.

Sorry again for the work many of you have invested to get HK working.

Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:28 pm
Espressomatic offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

Korey wrote:
https://github.com/oznu/homebridge-config-ui-x#readme


I've got Hoobs running in a docker but even then one will still have to get neck deep in YAML or some other garbage for virtually every single device one wants to configure.

And none of these solutions does anything for Indigo which still requires its own plugin. IMO, it's not relevant whether Apple will certify or not certify any product - it doesn't look like they will ever certify a software-only hub running on a Mac. When the existing plugin stops working for any reason, everyone using it is going to suffer. This functionality needs to be rolled up into Indigo by default. Hoobs has done it nicely, even generating their own QR code on-screen.

Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:24 pm
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

Espressomatic wrote:
This functionality needs to be rolled up into Indigo by default. Hoobs has done it nicely, even generating their own QR code on-screen.


I don't know how much clearer Matt or Jay could be. If Apple won't certify a software only HomeKit integration, then they can't roll it into the Indigo product. Because Apple could disable it on a whim, and Indigo would stop working. With no recourse. Hoobs, home bridge, and others can get away with that they have, because they're not commercial products. If they break, well too bad.

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Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:41 pm
Espressomatic offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

That's a risk that, not taken, is hurting the Indigo platform - not sure how much clearer everyone has to be about that. Developers leaving means customers leaving, means fewer customers signing up. Given the anti-trust scrutiny Apple is under, the likelihood of treading on this patch isn't very likely.

Also, there's a huge difference between "won't certify" and "certification not needed" - the first one is the effect, the second is the cause. A product like Indigo simply does not need certification according to Apple's docs. Certification is for manufacturers and devices. They spell that out pretty clearly.

I'd like to keep running Indigo for the foreseeable future without having to jump through arduous hoops. If I want to jump hoops I'd get on board with the garbage Open Source platforms out there right now.

I don't agree with C4W's choice of Home Assistant - I think it's utter crap and a giant time-sink not suitable to a production environment - but I can't disagree with his assessment of the issues facing Indigo.

In any case, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Homekit support is mandatory for any platform I use, so loss of Homekit is a deal-breaker. Even if it means having to jump onto another platform that's a giant syrup-covered spider nest like HA should the need arise.

Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:17 pm
DaveL17 offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

Espressomatic wrote:
Given the anti-trust scrutiny Apple is under, the likelihood of treading on this patch isn't very likely.

I'm no lawyer, but I suspect that using your product to break into / reverse engineer another company's platform for commercial gain is a huge financial liability at best and a crime at worst. Probably both. Indigo is used all over the world, making the liability even more complex. I wouldn't take the risk if it were my company no matter how doable it might be. If a hardware bridge emerges that's from a company with a track record to back it up, that would be different. But even then, it would have to be within that company's terms that it's permissible to use commercially.

I understand your frustration. I really do. But Apple says you can't do it. I'd say, from a business perspective, that's pretty much the end of it.

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Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:10 pm
Espressomatic offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

My frustration is in the assumptions. Please post a link to where "Apple says you can't do it" and I'll make time to read what's published. I've already done a lot of reading on the subject and haven't come across this information you're referencing.

Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:29 pm
Umtauscher offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

I agree. If anything Apple wants as many users as possible.
It really would not make any sense.
They are far behind in any way already.

Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:30 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

As I said previously, we will be doing what we can to continue to keep the HomeKit Bridge plugin functioning. It sounds like some on this thread either didn't see our stance on that or understand it.

Outside of that we will continue to explore ways to we can legally support HomeKit functionality, but we absolutely will not jeopardize Indigo or our company in doing so. There is absolutely no way we could defend against an Apple lawsuit, so whatever we do will be well within the limits of Apple's licensing policies.

I don't think there is much more point in continuing the discussion beyond the points made above, unless someone has different questions or additional new information to add.

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Posted on
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:35 pm
Espressomatic offline
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Re: HomeKit Bridge's Future, Etc

Umtauscher wrote:
I agree. If anything Apple wants as many users as possible.
It really would not make any sense.
They are far behind in any way already.


Which is why they released Homekit development materials as open source, non-commercial ADK (which I'm not suggesting be used for a commercial product), don't have a certification requirement for software, have joined and published into the Connected Home over IP group, etc.

But like I said, it works right now, so that's fine, but when it doesn't, that's a big issue. I'm fine if this Open Source project gets taken over by Indigo and remains a non-commercial and Open Source plugin.

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