Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or off

Posted on
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:36 am
DVDDave offline
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Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or off

This may not strictly be a Homekit Bridge issue but I'm curious if other users are seeing this. After upgrading to iOS 12, Siri now will not send an on or off command to a device if she thinks the device is already in that state. This affects all of my X10 light switches after I turn them off manually. I don't see any attempt to control them in the Indigo log or anywhere else except that Siri responds as if she controlled the device. I don't think there is any Siri or Homekit log available so I don't know how to check further.

Alexa controls the devices as before so no problem there.

I plan to contact Apple, at least with a suggestion to revert to the old behavior, but I figured I'd check here first to confirm it's not specific to my system.

Thanks.

--Dave

Posted on
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:59 am
rehafer offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

I’ve seen the same behavior. Asking Siri to turn a device off that’s already off so I can then turn it on usually works; but, that is definitely sub-optimal


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Posted on
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:43 pm
DVDDave offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

I called Apple support and the level 2 rep said he will make inquiries. However, when he asked what device is giving the problem, I had to acknowledge that it is unsupported. Therefore, he said he would make inquiries but didn't promise to keep looking for a fix. Fair enough. I tried to explain that this could also happen with a device that glitches or doesn't report status but I don't know if there are any officially supported devices that don't report status.

However, that does bring up a Homebridge related question. I wonder if there is any option in the API to inform Homekit that status is not reported. Also, are there any officially supported on/off devices that don't report status?

Posted on
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:13 pm
DVDDave offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

I thought of a supported situation where this is a problem. I have a MorningLinc lock controlled by Insteon. The lock doesn't report back status when the deadbolt is mechanically controlled. Therefore if it is unlocked manually and Siri is told to lock it, she will report back that she locked it but will not issue the command to the hub. This is obviously more troubling than a light not turning on.

I called Apple back and it's like pulling teeth to get them to acknowledge the problem. They're trying to say Insteon is not a supported hub but it says right on the Insteon website that it is. Normally, Apple support is really good but not this time. I'm spending half the time talking about whether the device is supported and not about the Siri problem itself. Then, after an hour on the phone, I got cut off and now I'm back on hold waiting for another level 2 rep. Argh!!!!

(After another half hour explaining the issue, another level 2 rep said she will research it and get back to me on Tuesday)

Posted on
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:32 pm
Londonmark offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

Yes. Having the same problem. Still use some LightwaveRF 1st gen devices that don’t communicate their state back to Indigo. If I switch them on manually HomeKit thinks they’re still off and won’t switch them off. Guess I could have a complicated work around with lots of action groups that switch things on and then off but far from ideal.

Posted on
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:45 am
virgahyatt offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

DVDDave wrote:
I thought of a supported situation where this is a problem. I have a MorningLinc lock controlled by Insteon. The lock doesn't report back status when the deadbolt is mechanically controlled. Therefore if it is unlocked manually and Siri is told to lock it, she will report back that she locked it but will not issue the command to the hub. This is obviously more troubling than a light not turning on.

I called Apple back and it's like pulling teeth to get them to acknowledge the problem. They're trying to say Insteon is not a supported hub but it says right on the Insteon website that it is. Normally, Apple support is really good but not this time. I'm spending half the time talking about whether the device is supported and not about the Siri problem itself. Then, after an hour on the phone, I got cut off and now I'm back on hold waiting for another level 2 rep. Argh!!!!

(After another half hour explaining the issue, another level 2 rep said she will research it and get back to me on Tuesday)


Were you able to recreate the issue with the locks?? They are considered a secure device so may be treated differently.

Posted on
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:26 pm
DVDDave offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

virgahyatt wrote:
Were you able to recreate the issue with the locks?? They are considered a secure device so may be treated differently.

Yes, same issue

Posted on
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:42 pm
virgahyatt offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

I tested this on a tv set that I control via Siri using a Harmony Hub and action groups. The only way I can tell it to turn on when it already thinks it's on is with Siri. When I did that I know the signal went through because the tv set turned off. Since it uses the same signal for both on and off.

However, as far as HomeKit is concerned it does supports status since I use a zwave outlet to monitor the power consumption and report it back. So not sure if the issue is just isolated to those that don't.

Posted on
Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:16 am
DVDDave offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

I posted this problem in WebDeck's forum also at viewtopic.php?f=191&t=21311&p=167247#p167247

It turns out that is the intended behavior of the Homekit Bridge plugin and he does not intend to change it due to technical concerns of keeping things in sync that I don't understand. However, he provided a simple fix if I wanted to try it. The fix worked and now I'm watching for any unforeseen consequences. So far, so good though. Of course, I owe Apple an apology for blaming them for this problem. Oh well.

--Dave

Posted on
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:59 am
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

This is something that I'll add to the next release of HKB as an advanced option.

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Posted on
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:01 am
DVDDave offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

That would be great! Still no problems with the fix. Thanks!

Posted on
Sun May 19, 2019 7:17 am
Londonmark offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

Colorado4Wheeler wrote:
This is something that I'll add to the next release of HKB as an advanced option.

C4W - this was the issue I referred to in the other thread about forcing on/off.

Posted on
Sun May 19, 2019 7:29 am
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

Got it.

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Posted on
Mon May 20, 2019 12:25 pm
durosity offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

Colorado4Wheeler wrote:
This is something that I'll add to the next release of HKB as an advanced option.


Would this be optionally enabled per device? I’d like it for a couple of things but not for most things (eg garage door where that could result in a bit of a security issue)

Computer says no.

Posted on
Mon May 20, 2019 12:41 pm
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Changed Siri behavior when thinks device already on or o

durosity wrote:
Would this be optionally enabled per device? I’d like it for a couple of things but not for most things (eg garage door where that could result in a bit of a security issue)

I agree, I see that this could be a security issue if we force a device to be 'off' when it's really still on. Doing this on a global level is [somewhat] straightforward but on a device-by-device level might be tricky but really should be considered the only way to implement this. I'll know more when I dive into the code.

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