Where to start

Posted on
Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:03 pm
clsanchez77 offline
Posts: 19
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
Location: Metairie, LA

Where to start

Hey all,

I have toyed with the idea of Indigo for quite some time now, but never pulled the trigger. I received a Samsung SmartThings device for Christmas last year and played with that device instead. I am able to do just about everything I want...but the cloud based nature of it makes it very unreliable. I will not mislead here, I am torn between Indigo and Homeseer. I already know I can do everything I want with Homeseer. With Indigo, I *think* I can do everything I want. But I'm willing to start the free trial and take a stab at it. I will be ordering my Aetec stick today and will start the free trial once that comes in. If it works, it would be more native to me as I have an OSX server that already runs 24/7. Putting Indigo on it makes more sense than purchasing another hub.

So here is what I have so far:
    22 of my 41 swithces are GE Z-Wave Plus
    7 of my 9 2-way switches have also been upgraded with the GE Z-Wave Plus Add-Ons
    30 hue bulbs with an additional 7 Hue dimmer switches
    A few assorted Z-wave outlets for low voltage lighting and occasional holiday lighting
    2 HVAC thermostats upgraded to Ecobee 3 with multiple Remote Sensors each
    A few zigbee motion sensors that I use in areas not covered by an Ecobee sensor
    Ring doorbell at front door
    Kwickset Z-wave lock at front door
    Iris Z-wave garage door opener

To clarify the sensors, in my larger rooms, I use the Ecobee sensors to determine "motion". In these rooms, the lights do NOT turn on due to motion. Lamps turn on by timer, overhead lighting is manually turned on. But overhead lighting is turned off when the Ecobee sensor changes to unoccupied or remains unoccupied for 40 minutes. In the smaller areas (garage, laundry room, closets, pantry, etc), I use Iris zigbee motion sensors and in these cases the lights do turn on automatically for motion and then turn off 5 minutes after motion stops.

My GE Z-wave plus switches have a double tap feature. I use the switch for local control of overhead lighting, but use the double tap to control related lighting. For example, hitting the living light switch off once turns off the living room overhead lighting (direct control). Double tapping the switch triggers a WebCore pison on my SmartThings that turns off all lights in my living room area.

These are my short-term goals for the system:
    Automation of exterior lighting at sunset, midnight and sunrise (combination z-wave and hue)
    Detection of home presence mode (home, away or sleeping) based on Ecobee sensors and presence sensors
    Verify front door locked when set to away mode or sleep mode
    Automation of lamps (hue) turning on and off at sunset and midnight when a room is unoccupied based on ecobee sensor
    Automation of turning room lights (z-wave, not lamps) off based on ecobee sensors going to unoccupied
    Establish lighting scenes based on double tap on the GE Z-Wave switches
    Turn on/off lighting in small areas (Z-wave switches) based on local motion sensor
    Turn on garage lighting based on opening of garage door
    Closing garage door when home mode changes to away or sleeping

My thinking on presence is that if my presence is detected (iphone and/or zigbee sensor) and Ecobee shows "Occupied", then home mode is "Home". If my presence is detected and Ecobee shows "Unoccupied", then home mode is "Sleeping". If my presence is NOT detected and Ecobee shows "Unoccupied", then home mode is "Away". I suppose I could also capture presence is NOT detected but Ecobee shows "Occupied" which would mean we have been gone less than some threshold, perhaps for an errand or something, so I would not change the home to "Away" per se, perhaps some kind of "Errand" mode...this could even be triggered by being in the backyard out of wifi range for example. The idea here is lighting automation would be a function of this. For example, I would not want to turn lamps on in the bedroom at sunset if we (or kids) are sleeping. I do want them to turn on if we are Away or otherwise active around the house.

Other items I think are self-explanatory. On the garage door, the z-wave opener already includes an alarm, strobing light and 5-second delay and I also have functioning sensors in the track, so I am not concerned about the door closing unattended.

My long term goals for the system:
    Upgrade all exterior doors to Z-wave locks
    Update remaining light switches to Z-wave
    Integrate (5) ceiling fans and operate based on occupancy, house mode and room temp
    Integrate DMP Alarm Panel
    Integrate exterior camera system
    Robot vacuum cleaner
    Integration with the living room stereo (turn off at sleeping, play radio at away, etc)
    Potential home audio system?

The first two items are self-explanatory.

On the alarm panel, I have a hard-wired dumb alarm that works well and I want to keep it that way. No outside tampering or hacking. However, I do want to be able to capture a tripped alarm due to fire or burglary so I can get instant notification. The panel as the option to add in and program relays that trigger on either of these two events, and I should be able to tie-these relays into a Z-wave sensor. Not sure what kind yet. Additionally, I can add-in "arming sensors" so that when a sensor is shorted, the alarm system goes into the corresponding arming state. So for example, if my home goes into Auto "Sleeping" mode, I can auto lock doors, turn off lights and short the "Sleep Arming" sensor. I think a Mimo would be a good tool for this. I would have a "Away Arming" zone and an "Sleep Arming" zone. I may or may not add a Panic zone for remote trigger.

On an exterior camera system, I am not sure what direction I am going with this. It should operate fully independent of indigo (or any platform) but I suppose there is benefit to some kind of integration.

Robot vacuum cleaner, I almost bought one already, but we got a puppy instead. This now has to wait until he is fully house broken.

For the living room, I already have a Logitech Harmony Hub, but with my current reciever, my options are too limited. So this will involve a receiver upgrade.

The home audio system, such as Sonos, is a contender and may render the previous item unnecessary. Not sure yet.


I know have some older previous threads on here, but playing with the SmartThings hub has given me some ground truth expectations for what we want from an HA system. I have my current system about 35% of what I want, but with SmartThings, I am hitting a wall with cloud computing reliability issues. I would like to change back to a local direction instead of putting more resources into this.

Any feedback or direction on how to perform these tasks would be appreciated.

Computer is the old style Mac Pro, the case mounted one, not the trash can mounted one :P

Posted on
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:28 pm
Different Computers offline
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Re: Where to start

Check my post history for what a huge upgrade Indigo was compared to SmartThings.

On quick perusal, I don't see anything on your list that Indigo can't handle. When it comes to comparing to HomeSeer, I can only say don't forget to include the cost of all the HS add ons, which can double the out of pocket cost. Those are all free with Indigo.

One caveat: aside from Hue Motion, no zigbee sensor is going to work with Indigo. I bit the bullet at swapped out a few Zigbee/Iris door sensor I had, mostly swapping them for z-wave with people on the SmartThings forums.

I can't really begin to explain what a huge difference Indigo made for me. After a year of struggle with ST, I had a more reliable HA system in a weekend when I swapped out to Indigo.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:32 pm
clsanchez77 offline
Posts: 19
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
Location: Metairie, LA

Re: Where to start

Different Computers wrote:
When it comes to comparing to HomeSeer, I can only say don't forget to include the cost of all the HS add ons, which can double the out of pocket cost. Those are all free with Indigo.


That is what I was thinking too. I am familiar with the Homeseer interface from many many years ago (pre-smarthtings and pre-vera). I am familiar with the basic indigo interface from version 5 I believe, but I never got into the scripting/programming part.

Different Computers wrote:
One caveat: aside from Hue Motion, no zigbee sensor is going to work with Indigo. I bit the bullet at swapped out a few Zigbee/Iris door sensor I had, mostly swapping them for z-wave with people on the SmartThings forums.


I figured the zigbee sensors would be a loss. I may have to figure something out then. I don't have many, but I need at least dozen motion and a single contact. I also use a zigbee presence sensor on my wife's key chain. Location services just kills her phone battery too fast.

Thanks

Posted on
Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:20 pm
clsanchez77 offline
Posts: 19
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
Location: Metairie, LA

Re: Where to start

I thought I had a follow up post specific to the GE Z-Wave Plus switches (on/off and dimmers). But I could not find it.

So after my wife and I looked at different switches, we settled on the GE ones. They are simple and intuitive. If someone walks in my house, they will not know it is smart or complicated from the switches. Currently, I have them setup for local control on the room overhead lighting, and the double tap covers on/off scenes for everything in the room/area. For example, a double tap off on the staircase switch downstairs turns off all lighting upstairs.

Does Indigo have the ability to capture double tap on the GE Z-Wave Plus switches?

Also, on SmartThings, the LED light on the GE switch is configurable via WebCore to be "On when Off", "On when On", "Always Off". I do not do anything with this now but I have thought about some how using them as indicators/messaging. I have not really thought of anything specific yet, but some examples might be at patio doors to indicate the alarm is on or off, so I don't let the dog out while the house is armed. Maybe something to indicate mail was delivered, etc.

Posted on
Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:28 pm
mundmc offline
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Re: Where to start

clsanchez77 wrote:
Does Indigo have the ability to capture double tap on the GE Z-Wave Plus switches?
.


I’m almost certain. It definitely does with Insteon- I’d be really surprised if it was a standard Z-wave transmission that Indigo doesn’t already catch. I have several Z-wave, but never set them to double-tap.


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Posted on
Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:25 pm
howartp offline
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Joined: Jan 09, 2014
Location: West Yorkshire, UK

Re: Where to start

mundmc wrote:
clsanchez77 wrote:
Does Indigo have the ability to capture double tap on the GE Z-Wave Plus switches?
.


I’m almost certain. It definitely does with Insteon- I’d be really surprised if it was a standard Z-wave transmission that Indigo doesn’t already catch. I have several Z-wave, but never set them to double-tap

It certainly has the ability to capture double-tap, it just depends what commands the GE switches are sending.

If it's not supported natively, my Zwave Scene Controller plugin will 99% likely handle them.


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Posted on
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:41 am
clsanchez77 offline
Posts: 19
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
Location: Metairie, LA

Re: Where to start

Thanks for the headsup on the plug-in, I will check it out. I just received by Aeotec stick and I just registered for my account. I should hopefully have the free trial up and running tonight.

Posted on
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:24 pm
siclark offline
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Joined: Jun 13, 2017
Location: UK

Re: Where to start

Sweepstake on how many days until you pay for the full license..... I'm on 5.
You'll quickly realise how good it is.


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Posted on
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:30 pm
Different Computers offline
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Re: Where to start

I just tried to capture double tap signals from my GE dimmer and had zero luck. I'll try that z-wave plugin when I get a chance. I know the switch supports double tap because it worked with ST--when ST worked.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:58 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Where to start

Different Computers wrote:
I just tried to capture double tap signals from my GE dimmer and had zero luck. I'll try that z-wave plugin when I get a chance. I know the switch supports double tap because it worked with ST--when ST worked.


Yep - we don't have a definition for those GE switches except some extremely old ones that don't support double taps. It's likely that howartp's plugin will catch them, and you should submit the device information for them (if the submit button shows) so we can get them into the queue.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:00 pm
Different Computers offline
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Re: Where to start

No submit button. Z-wave Scene Controller either doesn't catch the double tap, or I have no idea how to use ZWSC.

On the plus side, aside from double tap, this switch has been working perfectly for the better part of a year, and that year ago all I had to do was pull the reset switch on it for a minute.

I was also able to make my dummy z-wave switch work as a 3 way with it using associations, even though Indigo doesn't see any activity from the dummy.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:14 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Where to start

Different Computers wrote:
No submit button. Z-wave Scene Controller either doesn't catch the double tap, or I have no idea how to use ZWSC.

On the plus side, aside from double tap, this switch has been working perfectly for the better part of a year, and that year ago all I had to do was pull the reset switch on it for a minute.

I was also able to make my dummy z-wave switch work as a 3 way with it using associations, even though Indigo doesn't see any activity from the dummy.


Yeah, GE/Jasco implemented those double-tap things oddly as I recall, not using the standard Z-Wave options. You might be able to catch them using a match raw event type. In the device edit dialog, click the Write Device Details to Event Log button and then paste them into a reply. I'm curious to see what it claims it does.

Do you still have to poll periodically for status updates or can you use the poll when activity detected option? This is one of the main reasons I skipped the first/second generation GE/Jasco/Linear/Evolve switches - you had to periodically poll for status which made them significantly less than useful IMO.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:39 am
Different Computers offline
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Re: Where to start

jay (support) wrote:
click the Write Device Details to Event Log button and then paste them into a reply.


This is what I did. Tried plugging the captured data in, and nothing happened. I'll revisit it tonight. And you just reminded me that I do have them set to poll, at least the Evolve I think.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:00 pm
clsanchez77 offline
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Joined: Sep 14, 2015
Location: Metairie, LA

Re: Where to start

Well, hate to read this. I do use the double tap in SmartThings now, so it would be hard to give up that functionality in Indigo. The switches get immediate wife approval because they look like regular switches. But I capture the double tap to run some home control scenes that you would otherwise use an Insteon Wall Controller for.

Posted on
Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:03 pm
clsanchez77 offline
Posts: 19
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
Location: Metairie, LA

Re: Where to start

Jay, change in subject but still relative on "Where to start". My new computer does run High Sierra and I saw the warnings on here regarding that. While I did register for my trial version, I have not yet installed it. Will I run into compatibility issues with High Sierra and Indigo? Should I postpone my trial until this is resolved?

Chris

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