Video Surveillance

Posted on
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:34 am
chase offline
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Joined: Oct 27, 2013

Re: Video Surveillance

Seeker wrote:
i've been running blue iris (windows) for years. i love it. i run a small i7 PC with 9 cameras and it runs at about 25% CPU. $50 or so for unlimited cameras. iOS app is great, too. i have limited integration with indigo though.


Blue Iris is near enterprise-grade software at an awesome price, The developer is super responsive and features are added all the time. It is powerful enough for SMB use, cheap enough for consumers! (processing power means it tops out at about 40 cams though)

Most people that do IPC cam installations use either HiKvision or Dahua cameras (you can easily source these on ebay or look to ipcamtalk.com for some recommended aliexpress vendors) (a more limited selection is available on amazon). Stay away from all other brands, especially Foscam and Ubiquiti (ubnt are pretty well locked to the UniFi video ecosystem). I think Dahua is the best brand right now.

The Blue Iris iOS app really rocks. Notifications come thru with pics on the phone and watch. Sound and mic work (if the IPC supports them) so you can use a doorbell cam (like HiKvision's) without relying on any cloud services or proprietary apps.

I run Blue Iris on a win10 VM under Fusion with 16 cams on my Mac Pro 6,1., It uses about 40% of the resources in the VM, about 10% of the MP's resources.

Blue Iris has many ways you could integrate into indigo, but so far I really haven't seen a need to integrate the two.

I have tested SecuritySpy and the SecuritySpy app, It basically did the job, but used a LOT of resources, and lacked many of the features I like on Blue Iris, Also I find it very expensive for the number of cams I run,

I would not recommend a package system, there are so many different cams available now, you are better off choosing the best cam for each location.

Posted on
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:27 pm
Fxguy offline
Posts: 153
Joined: Mar 24, 2011

Re: Video Surveillance

Seeker wrote:

I would not recommend a package system, there are so many different cams available now, you are better off choosing the best cam for each location.


The biggest reason I was looking at a "kit" was for the standalone NVR. I dread the thought of trying to set things up so that I'm not wasting HD space yet at the same time maintaining a look back long enough when needed.

So looks like from the recommendations I need to look at :

Hikvision or Dahua for cameras

Blue Iris / Security Spy / Security Cam for the software side of things.

Any recommendations on a brand for HD for storage? I'll be running all of this off my iMac so external storage greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Posted on
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:43 pm
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Video Surveillance

Fxguy wrote:
I dread the thought of trying to set things up so that I'm not wasting HD space yet at the same time maintaining a look back long enough when needed.


Hard drive space is cheap. If you get an 8TB drive that would probably keep more than a year of recording 16 cameras for $400. I personally prefer open systems, and have already stated that SecuritySpy has been awesome, but if you prefer an all-in-one solution then go for it.

My Modest Contributions to Indigo:

HomeKit Bridge | Device Extensions | Security Manager | LCD Creator | Room-O-Matic | Smart Dimmer | Scene Toggle | Powermiser | Homebridge Buddy

Check Them Out Here

Posted on
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:58 pm
Fxguy offline
Posts: 153
Joined: Mar 24, 2011

Re: Video Surveillance

Colorado4Wheeler wrote:
if you prefer an all-in-one solution then go for it.


Not that I prefer an all-in-one solution, just wasn't sure if it would be easier / less troublesome than an open system.

Posted on
Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:04 am
rhanson offline
Posts: 192
Joined: Apr 30, 2013

Re: Video Surveillance

I'll echo the thoughts on BlueIris. Rock solid, even if it does run on Windows. :-)

You can achieve some level of integration with Indigo by calling an action group in Indigo via curl.

I run it on an older Mini via Bootcamp. I'd try a VM first, Bootcamp is a little wonky and still doesn't support the two most recent Win10 releases. If the performance is good with a VM, then just leave it that way.

For storage, get a large Western Digital Purple-series drive and find a simple SATA-USB enclosure so you can just plug it in. The Purple drives are designed for 24x7 surveillance recording. Seagate has a surveillance line as well.

I've tried and returned a handful of low-cost NVR appliances. They are all crap. They contain a low-end processor with a video-capable chip and networking. That's not the problem. But the software ranges on a scale from "frustrating crap" to "total joke". Not a single one earned a score of "usable", and definitely not "delightful". Some of the NAS hardware systems have surveillance software as well. But none of these things can come close to the functionality -- and stability -- of BlueIris. The dev could charge 10x as much and be competitive with the enterprise systems. Its only downfall is the Windows requirement.

Posted on
Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am
neilk offline
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Joined: Jul 13, 2015
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Video Surveillance

+1 for Blue Iris, I run it headless on a homebuilt Mini-Itx machine with a small SSD for the OS and a big NAS hard drive for the video. The new "beta" web interface adds polish to the last weakest point (the web UI) but no messing around with camera configuration and it just works and is easily tuned for motion detection with purpose built tools. The app is awesome. Indigo integration for me is limited to control pages (because I don't need any) but you can very easily trigger scenes (it can generate http calls and has a restful api) based on motion detection or change Blue Iris behaviour (home/away recording etc).

I know it is PC based but the license model for Security SPY is prohibitive for my number of cameras and Blue Iris is much better value for my use case. I also like having it in an nondescript industrial case in my loft bolted to the rafters that doesn't even look like a PC or an NVR device, and dedicated for the purpose. My worry would be I am much more likely to have one of my Mac's stolen complete with my CCTV images, the same reason I like an integrated but separate alarm than relying on Indigo.

It really doesn't take any looking after and is simple to setup with good forums, so no reason to avoid on OS grounds.

Posted on
Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:45 pm
RogueProeliator offline
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Re: Video Surveillance

The biggest reason I was looking at a "kit" was for the standalone NVR. I dread the thought of trying to set things up so that I'm not wasting HD space yet at the same time maintaining a look back long enough when needed.

I personally like having a standalone NVR -- I didn't buy a packaged system, just the bare bones NVR and added my own hard drives. Western Digital Purple drives are made for surveillance systems... I have run 2 using continuous recording of 15 cameras for 6 years without failure. If you are interested in a barebones NVR (you can also add the HD's there for a fee, of course), I've been happy with http://www.securitycameraking.com/. IP cameras can be bought elsewhere for cheaper - I use HikVision ones with their NVR.

Adam

Posted on
Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:42 am
finkej offline
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Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Location: Troy NY

Re: Video Surveillance

I use SecuritySpy with 12 cameras, 5 are 4mp POE and the rest analog feeding into Axis servers. This hits a 2012 mini which also runs Indigo.

The SS website suggests configuring the camera to send the same resolution and frame rate that you are recording, and not adding text overlays by SS (time, camera name), and have the camera supply those. This means that SS has less video processing overhead. Some cameras can also do the motion detection and pass that to SS (again, reducing the load on the Mac). Some of my cameras (Reolink for example) support this and I hope to start using this soon.

I also added an 8tb Western Digital purple drive. The system uses about 200Gb each day (all motion activity).


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Posted on
Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:09 am
Professor Falken offline
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Re: Video Surveillance

RogueProeliator wrote:
The biggest reason I was looking at a "kit" was for the standalone NVR. I dread the thought of trying to set things up so that I'm not wasting HD space yet at the same time maintaining a look back long enough when needed.

I personally like having a standalone NVR -- I didn't buy a packaged system, just the bare bones NVR and added my own hard drives. Western Digital Purple drives are made for surveillance systems... I have run 2 using continuous recording of 15 cameras for 6 years without failure. If you are interested in a barebones NVR (you can also add the HD's there for a fee, of course), I've been happy with http://www.securitycameraking.com/. IP cameras can be bought elsewhere for cheaper - I use HikVision ones with their NVR.

Adam



If you use a separate (and obviously non-Mac) NVR, can Indigo still see and interact with the cameras? I asked a similar question earlier in this thread when others were talking about using a separate Mac and SS to manage their cameras. I assume the same answer applies? Do you essentially allow the cameras to report to two addresses-- the NVR and the Indigo Mac? If so, are you still subject to the processing overload issues on the Mac, since Indigo is "doing stuff" based on the camera images (motion detection, triggered camera actions)? Or does the NVR usage move a lot of the processing off the Mac?

Posted on
Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:23 am
johnpolasek offline
Posts: 911
Joined: Aug 05, 2011
Location: Aggieland, Texas

Re: Video Surveillance

Professor Falken wrote:
If you use a separate (and obviously non-Mac) NVR, can Indigo still see and interact with the cameras?
Depends on the options available in the NVR, and/or cameras, but in general, yes. For example, I have a separate Ubiquiti NVR monitoring the 8 Ubiquiti cameras no a Linux box running Ubiquiti's UNIFI Video freeware. THis system has the ability to download snapshots from the cameras to a webpage, and I use this to feed images Bert's security camera plugin. The old Linksys camera isn't tied to the NVR, but could linked to some other system. Even if were tied to something else, has a direct snapshot option in the camera that I use to pull images directly from the camera into the same plugin. So if the cameras allow logins and have a snapshot capability or the NVR has a user interface that can post pictures to a web page, you can easily pull them into Indigo and display them in a control page.

Posted on
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:35 pm
Fxguy offline
Posts: 153
Joined: Mar 24, 2011

Re: Video Surveillance

Ok, I am simply overwhelmed with options. :(

Let’s back this up a bit.

1) What is the benefit for integration with indigo vs a standalone system (aside from the obvious less to maintain, less that can go wrong, etc..)?

2) Security Spy vs Blue Iris vs Security Camera.....

Security Spy - more expensive, Mac based and integrates with indigo and no need for standalone NVR

Blue Iris - windows based but cheaper, iOS app available? Integrate with indigo?

Security Camera - free but more complex to setup, integrates with indigo, no standalone app for viewing?

Ideally I feel like I’d like to go with a Security Spy (native to Mac and iOS apps are nice to use) but the trial I have I can’t seem to get to work with Indigo. Says sever unavailable and doesn’t see the camera I have setup in security spy itself?
If I can get security spy to work it’s just a matter of expanding the license and more cameras. The camera I have is a d-link dcs 5020L ..

Thanks!

Posted on
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:23 am
johnpolasek offline
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Location: Aggieland, Texas

Re: Video Surveillance

Fxguy wrote:
Security Camera - free but more complex to setup, integrates with indigo, no standalone app for viewing?


I'll just jump in on that note... Indigo IS the standalone app for viewing; it's sort of the "good news, bad news" kind of thing. You have to open Indigo and go to the appropriate control page (from anywhere with internet access if the Reflector is up) to see why you got a pushover alert (doorbell, motion sensor or camera tripped, garage door opened, etc), but once you decide how you want the home automation system to respond to what you are seeing (unlock the door, turn on a light, have airfoil start playing audio tracks, etc) you don't have to open the Indigo App...

Posted on
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:33 am
Different Computers offline
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Re: Video Surveillance

I'll jump in one further on what John says directly above.

He's right, yes. But if you are monitoring via an Android device and using DomoPad, Indigo can push a control page directly to the android device based on whatever trigger. So, for example, you could set up a trigger to push the Garage View control page to your Android phone (or your bedroom tablet monitor) if Security Camera detects motion after you've set the house to be secure.

This sounds complicated, but it isn't really. What you'll realize is that each new capability added into Indigo expands all the other capabilities that already exist. You don't even need to create new triggers/actions in most cases---you can just add new actions onto things that already exist.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:38 am
Professor Falken offline
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Posts: 289
Joined: Mar 29, 2015

Re: Video Surveillance

I may have a suggestion, as I am in the same boat as the original poster-- about to jump into some security cameras but a little bewildered by all the choices to be made.

I am going to try a step-wise approach. Shoot, it seems the toughest part is running Cat6 to the needed peripheral locations, and that's common for every option (except maybe battery powered wifi cameras).

I'm really not sure yet exactly how I will use these cameras, how many I will ultimately want, processor demands, etc. So it is hard for me to decide between, say, the free security camera plugin, Security Spy (on either my Indigo mac or a different one), Blue Iris (which then would require a PC of some type)... it quickly gets to a point where you can have paralysis by analysis.

So I am going to install one or two PTZ cameras to start, and see how they work feeding back to the Security Camera plugin running on my Indigo Mac. If CPU drain becomes an issue, or if I don't have the needed features (and can confirm that they are on one of the other commercial options), then I'll have to jump over to one of those, which seem like will also necessitate more hardware (another mac, a PC, or some stand alone NVR).

But doing it this way, I should be able to play with the features of the less expensive options before jumping into the more complicated hardware decisions.

I also welcome any feedback if anyone thinks this is a poor plan. All I've ordered so far is a few cameras.
Last edited by Professor Falken on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posted on
Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:06 am
Fxguy offline
Posts: 153
Joined: Mar 24, 2011

Re: Video Surveillance

johnpolasek wrote:
[
I'll just jump in on that note... Indigo IS the standalone app for viewing; it's sort of the "good news, bad news" kind of thing. You have to open Indigo and go to the appropriate control page (from anywhere with internet access if the Reflector is up) to see why you got a pushover alert (doorbell, motion sensor or camera tripped, garage door opened, etc), but once you decide how you want the home automation system to respond to what you are seeing (unlock the door, turn on a light, have airfoil start playing audio tracks, etc) you don't have to open the Indigo App...


So using Security Cam allows you to view the feed live in Indigo on a control page? I've not done anything with control pages in indigo so far, I could set one up with a window feed from each camera and just view that page to view the cameras correct? Does an action need to trigger to view or can I view the live stream any time I want and just use the trigger for recording?

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