Considering a move to Indigo

For the last year we have been using SmartThings in our house with mixed success. There's a lot to like about SmartThings but reliability and software quality haven't been among those things. Moving to Indigo will require us to replace 10 or 11 zigbee devices so it's not without it's cost even if we can recoup some of that cost by selling the old sensors.

Here's what we are trying to accomplish so I was hoping if someone can tell me whether this seems practical with Indigo.

1. Motion controlled lighting based on luminance and mode (away vs. home)
2. Much of that lighting is provided by Hue (the remainder is on wave wall switches)
3. Integration with our Vista alarm panel via an ad2usb (had to write code for this myself on SmartThings)
4. Reliable presence detection using iPhones without requiring user interaction beyond set up
5. Ideally, a zwave presence sensor that is waterproof suitable for a dog collar we can base the security modes on whether the dog is present or not)

I know plugins exist for hue, ad2usb and iPhone presence but I don't know how well they work so I'd love to hear from those with firsthand experience. As a programmer I'm not averse to doing some coding but I've got enough going on that I don't want to spend a lot of development time if that can be avoided.

Thanks!

For the last year we have been using SmartThings in our house with mixed success. There's a lot to like about SmartThings but reliability and software quality haven't been among those things. Moving to Indigo will require us to replace 10 or 11 zigbee devices so it's not without it's cost even if we can recoup some of that cost by selling the old sensors.

Here's what we are trying to accomplish so I was hoping if someone can tell me whether this seems practical with Indigo.

1. Motion controlled lighting based on luminance and mode (away vs. home)
2. Much of that lighting is provided by Hue (the remainder is on wave wall switches)
3. Integration with our Vista alarm panel via an ad2usb (had to write code for this myself on SmartThings)
4. Reliable presence detection using iPhones without requiring user interaction beyond set up
5. Ideally, a zwave presence sensor that is waterproof suitable for a dog collar we can base the security modes on whether the dog is present or not)

I know plugins exist for hue, ad2usb and iPhone presence but I don't know how well they work so I'd love to hear from those with firsthand experience. As a programmer I'm not averse to doing some coding but I've got enough going on that I don't want to spend a lot of development time if that can be avoided.

Thanks!

12 months ago I was in a similar situation (although without the zigbee devices). I'd struggled with the Fibaro system which looked really good on paper but was a nightmare in real life. Apparently it still is

I needed a) reliability, b) flexibility and c) good support. It was also beneficial to have 3rd party plugins and a good community.

I looked at just about every system but Indigo stood out from the crowd. The software is absolutely rock solid. I don't think I've actually had any significant (or even insignificant) bugs since I started. On fibaro I had loads of dead nodes, slow response and a regular reboot of the system. Since being with Indigo I haven't had one - it even seems to support Fibaro's modules better than they do:

Pros

Reliable and rock solid software

Simple interface - web server isn't pretty but the new Indigo Touch app looks and works great

Less coding - 90% of things I can do with a combination of triggers, schedules, conditions and actions. Before I had to code everything - now just a few things that I want to do

iPhone support - Fingscan and (he says modestly) iFindStuff work pretty well for me. I don't think I've had any false alarms since I've been using them. As I use it to control my Alarm and NEST systems it's pretty important to me.

Motion controlled lighting. I use Fibaro and Aeotec sensors and they work really well on indigo. Many of my scenes are based on luminance and motion so it's important that it works reliably. I find indigo is more responsive than Fibaro. I like my system to be Automation rather than Remote Control so sensors providing information to make intelligent decisions is key to me

Hue plugin - works really well for me and I've not had any issues. There are so many integration of Hue devices that I doubt you'll have an issue either. I've even started using Amazon Echo to drive parts of my Hue system and that, with indigo, works fine is a bit simplistic at the moment

Dog management - I use some dual beam detectors connected to an Fibaro universal switch. One is set at low level and one at high. If both beams break it's not my Beagle - if the lower breaks but not the upper one its him or the cats. If I bought him his own iWatch then I could use Fingscan or iFindStuff but he's not worth the expense

Customer service - unmatched in the industry to me. Every question I have or issue Matt or Jay are right back to me with a solution. Even supporting new technology is fairly quick compared to others (Fibaro - typically 8 months wait!) Add to that a really positive and supportive forum and you've got an ideal mix

Third party plugins - good selection and support from developers. The decision to use python was brilliant and, as a noob, it's a good language to learn and work with.

Cons

Matt & Jay - there is only Matt & Jay so their time is limited and precious. Actually I don't see much impact of this but I think development time would be quicker if there we more of them

iPhone integration could be better along with notification options. I know it's important to M&J so I fully expect new things to come along soon but it is limited. That said Fingscan and iFindStuff work really well and satisfy most needs

I can't comment on the Alarm integration as I don't use that system.

All in all I've not regretted moving. As a programmer you'll have a lot more freedom with your system to make it do what you need but at least 90% of your use cases will work using what's already there.

Any questions let me know and I'll try to answer them.

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for your detailed reply! Your comments regarding reliability are music to my ears. I don't wish to vent about SmartThings. There's a lot to like (when I started I knew nothing about either SmartThings or interfacing Vista alarm panels and a week later I had a working prototype) but my biggest complaint has been reliability. On Thursday we added some hue bulbs so our setup and though the Hue app seems them just fine, SmartThings resolutely refuses to acknowledge their existence. Their support is working on it but this is the sort of recurring problem that seems to, well, recur. When combined with the unpredictable latency of their cloud-based architecture, it is a bit maddening.

I probably didn't give enough detail on the dog use case. Our daughter is currently living with us and she has a large dog. He trips the motion detectors as he wanders about the house during the day so I wanted to ensure the alarm went into Arm-Stay mode rather than Arm-Away mode when the dog was present. Originally I solved this with a SmartThings presence sensor that I attached to his collar. This worked fairly well but the sensor wasn't waterproof and the dog loves snow and water and let's just say that the water won the battle. For now I'm using a virtual presence sensor to just say when he is home or not which is probably sufficient but it would be nice to just automate (plus we could use it to notify us if he ever did get out of the yard though of course it wouldn't tell us where he is). I haven't been able to find a zwave sensor that is the equivalent of the zigbee SmartThings presence sensor, much less one that is waterproof.

I'll take a look at the options for detecting iphone presence you mentioned.

Again, thanks!

Another soon-to-be SmartThings deserter here - I enjoyed the detailed comments on Indigo. I actually signed up for a demo of Indigo over a month ago but then discovered SmartThings. While struggling with the ST problems (bugs, latency, server issues, and many raised but unmet expectations) my Indigo trial just ran out. So, I’m back in the hunt, and almost pulled the trigger today on a VeraEdge but thought I’d have another look at these forums. Every review I’ve seen here has had one common thread: “rock solid.” Coming from ST, that sounds sooooooo appealing.

I’ve read a lot of posts on this site but I’m still not clear on a few things, so hopefully someone and shed some light about some specific questions. Some of the plugin solutions I’ve seen here seem to demand some programming skills but I’m not a coder (not since BASIC anyway) although I’m a pretty logical thinker and adept at cut & paste. I should also mention that I’m new to the Mac world (<1 yr) but really enjoying it. I would need to purchase a Mac Mini for an Indigo setup, as my rMBP is for work and I travel with it occasionally. And I don’t have a big mesh ATM, just a few Ecolink door/windows sensors, motion sensors, a minimote, and an Aeon Gen5 siren. First order of business is to replicate my recently canceled ADT perimeter security. (and I am aware it won’t be as solid as a dedicated security system) After that, it’s getting the entertainment system to play nice with my low-tech wife. Then, who knows?

So with that...
1. I know Indigo actions can speak text, but how does one broadcast that to other rooms? Is there a simple solution? BT? Wifi speakers? Airplay speakers?
2. Are the proximity/presence sensor plugins that utilize the iPhone pretty accurate and stable? (my ST presence sensor sitting in the garage teleported itself away twice today which caused my sirens to trigger unexpectedly on my wife)
3. Are notifications available to the iPhone without internet? Prowl uses cloud-based servers, yes?
4. Is there any type of hardware keypad panel (security) available for integration with Indigo? The wife is used to pushing buttons (usually mine). A separate iPad mini maybe?
5. Is there an integration with Amazon Echo?
6. Sonos?
7. Harmony Hub?
8. Do any yes answers to the above require additional coding?

And for any of you that may have defected from Vera, any regrets? Recommendations?
TIA!

Regarding the trial, email support and I'm confident Matt/Jay will do you another one based on what you've said in this thread.

1) AirFoil (google it) or Sonos are the usual ones here.

2) I don't use it yet, but the recent iFindStuff plugin seems to be getting good feedback on this regard, but battery life is a compromise.

3) I don't think so; email, iMessage, prowl and pushover are used by various users.

4) The DSC alarms integrate well with Indigo via a plugin. There's also one other which I can remember that I think has a plugin.

5) I think people are experimenting but I've not seen a solid 'yes' yet, that I recall.

6) Yes.

7) No.

8) Non that I can recall NEED coding if you don't want to. Airfoil can be, and often is, coded if you want say multiple 'groups' of speakers - the UI only allows saving one group, which you can recall or update when needed.

Having said that if you can do logic, you might come on here saying 'I want to do xyz that I think will be easier in code; can anyone help' - you will usually get some responses.

There's a number of Vera defectors here, who all seem very happy. They often keep the Vera running, connected to Indigo via plugin, so they can use their Zwave locks that Indigo doesn't yet support.


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Thanks for the info HowartP

[jay (support)]

To augment howartp's responses:

1) Airfoil is like a traffic cop for the sound on your Mac and where it goes. The most common use is to direct sound out to some set of Airplay speakers out on your network.

2) All notification methods require some kind of Internet connection - not sure what exactly your requirement is here.

4) There are quite a few security plugins that do a variety of things. Some users also use Insteon KeypadLincs for this purpose as well.

5) One of our users has it working pretty well by all accounts.

8) While it's true that the Airfoil plugin itself only stores a single speaker "set" that can be recalled by a single action, the same can be accomplished by using several actions configured in the UI (disconnect the speakers you don't want connected, connect to the ones you want). No coding required.

Thanks Jay. Regarding Alexa, I think I'll have to wait til it is officially supported at Indigo. That link you provided is even beyond my cut & paste skills

Thanks Jay. Regarding Alexa, I think I'll have to wait til it is officially supported at Indigo. That link you provided is even beyond my cut & paste skills

Actually to add to what Jay is saying the Alexa link isn't as hard as it looks. I've got it working with my system with relatively little effort even though it looked daunting. And as Jay would tell you I'm not an expert on Macs

If you have any problems setting it up let me know and I'll try to help you...

Mike

Thanks for the offer, Mike. I'm getting really frustrated with the instability of SmartThings so it may be sooner rather than later.

I use a Vera 3 for a few years then switched to SmartThings earlier this year. I bought the version 1 hub before the version 2 was out and it initially seemed to work well. Once the version 2 hub came out, it seemed the reliability got worse. That may just be a perception but I haven't been very happy with reliability. I do like the iOS app but wanted to re-investigate Indigo. I used this system a long time ago when I had an Insteon setup.

Right now, I have about 50 devices in the house. Most are Z-Wave but I have a few Zigbee and my door lock is Z-Wave which I don't think Indigo supports due to licensing cost for the secure Z-Wave stuff.

So, if I wanted to get back to Indigo, what is the path?

1. Get a Z-wave dongle and replace the door lock and Zigbee devices?
2. Find a way to keep the Smartthings and use a plugin (if it exists) to control the door lock and Zigbee?

I'm also curious about Homekit support. I haven't researched on the forums yet but is this an API that Indigo could support to act as a bridge for their devices? I would be great to have Siri support. I've seen an open source project called HomeBridge that allows you to have Homebridge support for Smartthings but it's not complete and a bit of work to setup. But it does seem to show you can create a bridge to provide Homekit support.

Thanks for any tips or advice.

Mark

Welcome (back).

Yes, get a Zwave stick. Gen5 sticks are available, but there's extra work required managing them (outside of Indigo) at the moment. My personal choice would still be the non-gen5, but others will likely say go for it. (I'm sure Indigo 7 will address as much of those issues as possible, when it's released)

Not sure about Zigbee.

Have you still got the Vera 3? There's a well-used plugin for Indigo that controls a Vera, that allows you to use your locks.

HomeKit cannot officially be supported because Apple will only license it on hardware, not software. However there's a big long thread on here (search HomeKit) which has a good working workaround by other users.


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Thanks. I downloaded the trail version and did re-hook up my Vera and got it working with one of my modules to test. A plugin for the SmartThings would make things much easier because all my devices are paired to it and it controls ZigBee too but I only have 2 Zigbee devices (GE Bulbs) so it's only a $30 loss.

So, if I have the Vera 3, what is the advantage in getting the Z-Wave stick? I assume I can't see everything on the Vera? I have a lock, siren, switches, dimmers, motion and door sensors and the Aeon home energy monitor. (about 50 devices in total)

I also like some of the Insteon stuff. Oddly, one of the reasons I switched out all my Insteon stuff (now sold) was I didn't like the single company source. I didn't like the risk of one company plus the lower selection. After moving to Z-Wave, I regret my decision to some degree. The cost of the Insteon stuff is no worse than Z-Wave and in a lot of cases, cheaper. I've read bad reviews on the plug-in Insteon PLM but the USB one has good ratings for reliability which is strange. I wouldn't mind the X10 in the plug in though. I still have some X10 plugs I like to use for the holidays.

One last question. How do I keep my wife from killing me if I tell her she's going to have to control the house with a new interface? Again.

So, if I have the Vera 3, what is the advantage in getting the Z-Wave stick? I assume I can't see everything on the Vera? I have a lock, siren, switches, dimmers, motion and door sensors and the Aeon home energy monitor. (about 50 devices in total)

I can't answer that as I don't use the Vera; I'm sure others will.

One last question. How do I keep my wife from killing me if I tell her she's going to have to control the house with a new interface? Again.

Kill her first?


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[jay (support)]

So, if I have the Vera 3, what is the advantage in getting the Z-Wave stick? I assume I can't see everything on the Vera? I have a lock, siren, switches, dimmers, motion and door sensors and the Aeon home energy monitor. (about 50 devices in total)

I can't answer that as I don't use the Vera; I'm sure others will.

Working through the Vera can be quite slow - it's API doesn't perform very quickly. Often times, for instance, when telling my Vera Lite to lock the lock, it will take over 4 seconds to respond (sometimes into the double-digit seconds). Status updates are quite slow as well, which makes using it for anything time sensitive really sketchy (like triggers that fire in response to a change). The plugin only supports a small subset of device types (no sensors for instance). Finally, you still have to use the Vera's UI to add/modify devices, then add them to Indigo. Vera's UI, quite frankly, sucks...