New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 3:25 pm
Digiacomo offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 19, 2022

New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

after roughly 11 years as an Insteon user, I'm evaluating Indigo on a trial license, and so far I am impressed with the capabilities, but I am having a hard time with my transition from Insteon HUB. I factory reset 3 switches at my house, so I could add them to Indigo, and I was able to do that successfully. I read most of the guides on the support page but I'm having difficulty accomplishing the following (very basic) task:

1. On the Insteon Hub/app, it was possible to select a Keypad Linc (KPL) as both a controller and responder. Then, it was possible to do something like programming a keypad button (say button A) to run a very basic scene that would simply dim the load connected to the KPL to a preset level. This would work without the HUB having to be online, i.e. it was locally stored on the KPL. This functionality is what has allowed me to get by after the Insteon server shut down, since all my programmed scenes already existed on my KPLs, however, I am having a hard time replicating that on Indigo.
2. I created a trigger on indigo, using the "Insteon Command Received" type, assigning it to the A button (button 3), and a "send scene" action to dim the light. I have tested the scene by itself (using "Execute Actions Only") and it works as expected. However, after I sync device links, I am still unable to get the KPL button to work to trigger the scene.
3. At some point in my experimenting, I changed the trigger type to "Device State Changed", and I tied it to the "Keypad Button LED 3" state. That eventually worked, but there was a really long lag for the scene to be executed after pushing the button. That definitely wasn't consistent with my previous experience using the Insteon App. Now, I've tried to revert back to that, and it isn't working.

I am at a loss understanding what is happening here, I've never had this degree of difficulty making simple programming of a keypad button with the Insteon app, so I am assuming there must be something about the Indigo operating model that I am not fully grasping. I did notice that, if I go to "manage device links" and select the KPL, there is a "controller" entry for the PowerLinc (which I would expect), and no "link to responder" (which I would expect since the KPL is a responder in at least one scene). If I try to manually add it, then the KLPL is not listed as an option under "On controller", I only get the two other devices plus an "Unknown Device" entry. Coming from Insteon HUB, I would expect the KPL to appear as a valid option on both since it can act as a controller and as a responder. I also would've expected an easy way to inspect what scene has been assigned to buttons 3-6. I imagine I am missing something, so I would appreciate any advice from the group. I do not want to reset all my house switches to add them to Indigo, only to find out I can't even replicate basic functionality. Any suggestions? Please keep in mind, I am trying to accomplish two goals:

1. Program the Insteon KPL buttons to run scenes that do not require the Indigo server to be up
2. Leverage the Indigo server for some advanced automations

Thank you all in advance!

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 4:24 pm
ELWOOD offline
Posts: 242
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Location: Ramsey, NJ

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

Hi Digiacomo welcome to indigo

You said you do not require the Indigo server to be up all the time. But that's what makes it such a superior system.
I have a number of Insteon KPL and using action groups have them controlling many lights, TV's, Scenes that sets temperature
on thermostats. Even a button that turns on my toaster. Trying to sink the buttons LED'S with other devices was a little tricky
until found the plugin Cynical Behaviors that lets you turn the LED'S on and off. Plus a lot of other things.

So best advice I can give is keep Indigo server all the time. Also take a look at the Plug in store for controlling a load of non Insteon equipment.

Elwood

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 4:56 pm
Digiacomo offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 19, 2022

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

Thanks Elwood. I think you misunderstood the question though. It's not that I don't "want" to keep the indigo server on. It's that I don't want to "have to" keep it on, any more than I wanted all my scenes and basic automations to stop working if my Insteon Hub died (which happened a few times). The Insteon system has a layer of independence from a hub or server that I really appreciate, and it became handy when the Insteon Cloud was shut down and the Hub became useless. But that's neither here nor there, what I'm trying to do right now is to program scenes to buttons on my KPL, and I can't think of a simpler scene than pushing a button on the KPL and having the light controlled by that KPL dim to a set level. Yet, I haven't been able to make that work, and I'm hoping someone here can give me some pointers, because almost every scenario I've tried after reading the help pages, has failed. Btw, I'm not trying to control the button LEDs, at this point I couldn't care less. I just want to control the load that is connected to the KPL. That's what I'm trying to control when I push the button, but I can't get it to work, and the only time I did, the lag was ridiculous. Considering how happy most people are with the product, and all the power it offers, I am sure that the problem is that I'm not doing something the way Indigo expects me to, since I'm used to programming things with my Insteon app, through my Insteon Hub, which are both dead now.

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 6:12 pm
ELWOOD offline
Posts: 242
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Location: Ramsey, NJ

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

very simple
1- make a new trigger, give it a name bed rm light on
2- Type insteon command received
from your KPL
received ON select the button # you want
3 action / device action / light appliance control / turn on
device pick your light

4 Now duplicate the trigger give it a new name bed rm light OFF
unter trigger change received to to OFF

5 under types change to OFF

That should do it.
To get the led to follow the switch when you turn turn the light on/off at the switch you can use the Cynical Behaviors plugin

Hope that helps

Elwood

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 6:15 pm
Digiacomo offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 19, 2022

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

Yes, thank you. That's very helpful, because it confirms that what I was doing should have worked. But for some reason, it didn't, so I'm wondering what is amiss here. Maybe I'll just delete the KPL, factory reset it again, re-add it, and try again, because this should've worked.

Just to confirm though - this would work even if the Indigo server were down? How about the PowerLinc interface?

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 6:34 pm
ELWOOD offline
Posts: 242
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Location: Ramsey, NJ

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

The server must be on. And the power link must be connected


Elwood

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 6:42 pm
Digiacomo offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 19, 2022

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

Thank you. That confirms that what I have been trying to do is not possible using the method I have been using.

Does anybody know if replicating the Insteon functionality (i.e. programming a scene to a KPL button that will run directly on the target device regardless of Hub/PowerLinc/Indigo Server status) is even possible in Indigo?

Posted on
Thu May 12, 2022 7:55 pm
Digiacomo offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 19, 2022

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

Adding to the context:

I was able to "sort of" get things to work with the method above (which is not exactly what I was trying to do, since I didn't want the action to rely on the PowerLinc), however, it is inconsistent at best (it will work maybe one out of every 5 times I push the button) and it takes a long time (about 2 to 3 seconds) to run the scene, assuming it runs it. However, every button push and every action is being recorded correctly (and instantly) on the log, so I don't understand the reason for the lag. Furthermore, if I control the KPL directly from the Indigo interface, it works every time. Similarly for the scene, if I run it directly from the interface, it works perfect every time. What's happening here?

Posted on
Fri May 13, 2022 10:56 am
jay (support) offline
Site Admin
User avatar
Posts: 17432
Joined: Mar 19, 2008
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: New User: Insteon Keypad Button Programming

You can Manage Insteon Device Links between devices directly in Indigo. The only limitation is that you can't link a device to itself. That means that you can't link a KeypadLinc button to the load of the device or vice versa for instance.

As for your reliability issues, it could be any number of issues, most likely due to signal path noise issues between your PowerLinc and the various devices in your house. One thing to try in the Interface Options dialog for your Insteon interface you toggle the first button (Always send group.scene cleanup messages) from whatever the current setting is. You generally don't need that setting enabled unless you have some signal issues on your Insteon network. I believe the default is to have it turned off, but you may have to turn it on to increase your reliability.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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