INSTEON Access Point vs Dual Band Switches

I have been trying to improve the reliability of my INSTEON network.

I ran a very small INSTEON setup in my previous rental, and it worked very reliably.
I now own a much larger home, and I have had extremely poor reliability (and ironically the wiring in this home is decades newer - the rental even had some had cloth wiring with glass insulators).
I have added more INSTEON devices in this home, and I purposefully spread them throughout the whole house.
I was under the belief that adding more devices will increase reliability, because it improves the "mesh" network.

But the communications simply keep failing.

I read about Access Points in the forums and that they have to be installed to "couple the electrical phases".
However, I didn't seem to find etc Access Points for sale anymore and that most of the newer Linc devices are dual-band.
I am wondering if the dual band devices have replaced the need for stand alone Access Points?
If I am using dual band switches, do I still need to install two or more Access Points?

I personally use both. Yes, the newer dual band switches do repeat the signal like the access points.
Typically, the more the merrier with ZWave or Insteon networks.
Sounds like you may have a noise issue if you're using dual band devices and are still having
missed commands.

Carl

How large is 'Large' ? I understand that Insteon doesn't really route packets and collisions are a problem as the network gets highly populated.

I have taken Jay's advice and use Insteon for switching duties and Z-wave for all sensors (and use Z wave receptacles strategically placed to route/repeat the Z-wave packets as battery powered Z-wave devices do not act as repeaters) . So far things have been rock solid.

My network currently has 54 insteon devices and 33 Z-wave devices (but there are plans to add up to 100 more Z-wave sensors as I want to monitor all doors/windows/deadbolts and temp/humidity/lumens in all rooms).

[jay (support)]

They renamed Access Points - they're now called Range Extenders.

Dual-band devices will perform the same duties as AP/RE devices, just just want to make sure that you have one on each phase in your home.

What kind of errors are you getting? If they're no acks, which is the most common, then you'll need to do some signal troubleshooting to try to figure out the problem. If you just moved into a newly constructed home, I'd look very closely at the bulbs provided by the builder. They seem to be using the cheapest CFL bulbs they can find (they did in mine anyway) and those have been known to cause signal noise.

Check the signal troubleshooting page for other tips for diagnosing signal noise.

The house is about 4500 sq feet. Three floors.
I currently have 25 devices but plan on at least doubling that, so not large to some, but much larger than my rental!

Th errors are no acknowledgement (and the device does not turn on or off).
I have also seen were the device DOES occasionally turn on or off, but Indigo doesn't realize it.

Its an old home (100 years), but the wiring was all redone in 88, and from what I can tell, they did a good job.

There probably are at least CFLs under the lamp covers, to be honest, I haven't even checked, didn't realize bulb type would be an issue...

Thanks for the link, I will check that out@

Well I read through that article on troubleshooting basics.

As I read it, I kind of had to laugh.
Don't use power strips, televisions, mobile device chargers, midi equipment, video games, fans, CFL or LED bulbs.

In other words go back to the Stone Age, and you can use INSTEON to turn on your antique incandescent bulb.

OK, so I guess the point of the article is just about any modern device can interfere with INSTEON, and you are going to have to spend a weekend tracking everything down, and invest in filterlincs.

That being said, I do have two questions:
1. if we aren't supposed to use CFL or LED lights, and incandescent are apparently illegal or no longer made, are there recommendations for bulb brands/modelss that work?

2. The manuals for Access Points refer to a specific process of bridging the two electrical phases. Tthe dual band dimmer module instructions don't mention that process. Do I have to do something more than simply adding my devices to Indigo and placing them throughout my home to ensure they are bridging the two phases?

[jay (support)]

OK, so I guess the point of the article is just about any modern device can interfere with INSTEON, and you are going to have to spend a weekend tracking everything down, and invest in filterlincs.

There ya go, no snark needed. The amount of time spent troubleshooting is, of course, based on how severe your problem is and how good your troubleshooting skills are...

1. if we aren't supposed to use CFL or LED lights, and incandescent are apparently illegal or no longer made, are there recommendations for bulb brands/modelss that work?

Most newer ones seem to be OK. CFLs seem to be more problematic (probably because they have some kind of fake ballast inside them). But that's just anecdotal.

2. The manuals for Access Points refer to a specific process of bridging the two electrical phases. Tthe dual band dimmer module instructions don't mention that process. Do I have to do something more than simply adding my devices to Indigo and placing them throughout my home to ensure they are bridging the two phases?

The process is just meant to confirm that the APs/REs are in fact on the opposite phases. If you're sure that you have dual-bands within range of each other that are on opposite phases then you don't need to do it.

I haven't begun the arduous task of shutting all of circuit breakers off and inspecting/removing the dozens and dozens of light bulbs, but I do have a new observation:

I had about six dual band plug-in dimmer modules that I had already added to Indigo in anticipation of eventually actually deploying, but I didn't have them plugged in anywhere because I wasn't using them for any specific purpose yet.

I figured I may as well plug them in to attempt to help create a more robust mesh network.

Interesting thing - the log immediately recognized each device as I plugged it in, and I received the "off received" confirmation for each of the modules I added tonight each time I plugged a new one in.

So these newly-plugged in modules seemed to be communicating OK (although I don't currently have a device plugged into them to verify).

But the command to the modules I had been using are still failing 98% of the time...

So it turns out my issue was a failing 2413U PowerLinc Modem.

After plugging in additional dimmer modules and unplugging and plugging the extending modules back in, there was a day were everything worked 100%, then the next few days everything failed 100% of the time. Strange. While doing these tests, I observed the log and the little Indigo modem status indicator.

My next troubleshooting test was to reset the modem, so I unplugged the modem, plugged it back in, the LED lit briefly, then went dark.

It was completely dead.

Ordered a new modem.
Just received it today, and so far (knock on wood) it has been very reliable.
Small Note: The button to Start Sync All Links in the modem setup dialog all didn't work very well for me, lots of errors in the logs, and communication to devices didn't work after the process was complete.
I had to edit each device and use the Define and Sync... button to re-establish communication with each device..


Strange how it went from communicating with the Mac, and after essentially a power cycle, went completely dead...