Swimming Pool Pump control

My old electromechanical pool pump and pool sweep timer unit failed. The mechanical pawls that turn the switch on and off wore out. Since I have Indigo with both Z-wave and Insteon I can probably just use a 230V DPST relay switch for each and then let Indigo handle the timing rather than just replacing the timers. I notice on Smarthome that Intermatic has a Z-wave based pool control unit: http://www.smarthome.com/intermatic-pe653rc-multiwave-z-wave-wireless-pool-spa-control-system.html

Unfortunately, it gets pretty poor reviews, mostly based on how fragile the remote control is.

Options:

1. Just replace the old Intermatic electromechanical timers. They worked fine for many years.
2. Install an electronic timer.
3. Find two Z-wave or Insteon 230V switches that will handle 2hp motors
4. Something else I haven't thought of.

If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. Thanks

I had the same thing happen years ago. I gutted the original controls from the box, took a spare Insteon dimmer (using it as a relay) and a spare 3 pole 120v coil relay from the parts bucket to automate my pool. Both legs of the 240v pump power are switched through the relay and one leg of the 240v is used to power the switch which energizes the coil of the relay. It's been working perfectly for over 3 years now and was essentially free since I already the parts lying around.

Terry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am using 2 Insteon 230v switches for pump and heater. Then I use the aeotec power monitor where I put the coils around ONE of the power wires for pump and heater separately.

First I used one of the 120v to ground to drive the aeotec. But that's really a code violation. So I added a small 230to 120v transformer to feed to 120 v aeotec power meters for its power needs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You could upgrade your pump to one of the variable speed Pentair Intelliflos that has a built in timer and relay. It would probably pay for itself in a year or two in reduced power usage. My parents have this pump and it has been a nice upgrade for them.

But then your post would change to "How to connect Indigo and Pentair" There is a Pentair plugin, but I suspect that you'll need an interface box. There is some advantages to having the pool just do its own thing without relying on Indigo, like your pool guy can work it. Although it is really neat to turn on the hot tub as you drive home.

Tad

First I used one of the 120v to ground to drive the aeotec. But that's really a code violation. So I added a small 230to 120v transformer to feed to 120 v aeotec power meters for its power needs.

Good point. I have a neutral in the box so didn't have to use a step-down transformer. One should never power a 120v device using one leg of a 240v circuit and ground.

Terry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You could upgrade your pump to one of the variable speed Pentair Intelliflos that has a built in timer and relay. It would probably pay for itself in a year or two in reduced power usage. My parents have this pump and it has been a nice upgrade for them.

But then your post would change to "How to connect Indigo and Pentair" There is a Pentair plugin, but I suspect that you'll need an interface box. There is some advantages to having the pool just do its own thing without relying on Indigo, like your pool guy can work it. Although it is really neat to turn on the hot tub as you drive home.

Tad

I have a Pentair Pool Controller with the serial interface module and plugin. Works great. Haven't done all that much Indigo-ish with it, other than triggers to turn the lights on when the spa goes on (if after dark), and turn the lights off when the spa goes off (anytime, 15 min delay).

Thank you for all the replies and ideas. I have most of the parts to just replace the timers with 2PST or 3PST contactors. I just need the contactors. I have both Z-wave and Insteon dual-band switches/dimmers to use. (I need to control the filter pump and pool sweep pump separately.) I'll probably go with the Insteon switches as they will work with either the wireless or wire-line protocols. And being in a metal box outside, I bet wireless will not be reliable.

So I think I will go with option 1 -- two insteon switches and two contactors to replace the failed mechanical timers -- and see how it goes from there.

Thanks for the inputs! I really appreciate it.

I had the same thing happen years ago. I gutted the original controls from the box, took a spare Insteon dimmer (using it as a relay) and a spare 3 pole 120v coil relay from the parts bucket to automate my pool. Both legs of the 240v pump power are switched through the relay and one leg of the 240v is used to power the switch which energizes the coil of the relay. It's been working perfectly for over 3 years now and was essentially free since I already the parts lying around.

Thank you for that. That is what I ended up doing. I happened to have two extra Insteon dual-band dimmer switches. I did have to buy two contactors and found what I needed on Amazon for not a lot of money. (I got two 3PST DIN-mount contactors for about $20 ea., way cheaper than even one replacement mechanical timer.) I used the third pole of the pump motor contactor to provide an AND function to prevent the sweep from running if the main pump is not running. (That is the way the timers were wired too so it seemed prudent.) Everything works perfectly ... well, almost perfectly.

The problem I now have is that the Insteon communications is about 70%. The switches come on or go off only about 7 times out of 10 when activated by Indigo. Having the Insteon dimmer-switches in a metal box on the outside of the building, with a masonry wall between the box and the PowerLinc 2413U, suggests that radio control is unlikely. So I am likely limited to power line control.

I have a couple of BoosterLinc devices positioned on circuits very near my breaker panels. I have a signal bridge between legs of the 220 feed. I have tried connecting my switches to both legs of the 220V input in the pool pump control box to see of one works better than the other. There appears to be no difference.

So, is there a way to increase the reliability by getting Indigo to send an on or off command multiple times until it gets a clear ACK for the command?

Glad it helped!

As for signal reliability, I've been 100% on mine. I do have 4 other switches outside (pool lights and patio lights/fans), very near this box so maybe that helps, they also just happen to spread across both phases so I'm sure that helps get the signal across. Sounds like you need more stuff!!

Terry

Heh. I have quite a bit of Insteon stuff. But most of my network is Z-Wave, not Insteon. I find that there are advantages to both and that there are devices that work better one place or the other.

I did move one of the BoosterLincs closer to the panel that feeds the pool pump. Cursory testing suggests that things may be better. We'll see.

I have been perusing the forum for hours and have not found a complete pool control for my pentair intelliflo pumps and valves. From what I have read it would be easier to control the valves with insteon switches or relays and that is easy. Is there a USB to RS-485 adapter and plugin to control the pump speed 0-100%?


Suggestions?

I have been perusing the forum for hours and have not found a complete pool control for my pentair intelliflo pumps and valves. From what I have read it would be easier to control the valves with insteon switches or relays and that is easy. Is there a plugin / interface to control the intelliflo pumps through their speed bands? I know USB to 232 converters are common as I use one with my DSC alarm plugin.

Suggestions?

I'm guessing you found the Pentair plugin, but it didn't meet your needs? It's the only one I'm aware of. viewtopic.php?f=134&t=9869

Terry

You were faster then I. I was trying to correct my post to state 485 not 232 interface.

(Hello Brian)

I have a system I haven't seen mentioned in this thread. I use a digital timer (DIN rail in my case) that allows for an external control over on/off. So, I set the timer with the program I normally want and then can use indigo (via any type of I/O control) to turn the timer on manually when I want. As far as I'm concerned, this is the best of both worlds: the timer will work even is Indigo or the network is down, and when everything is working, I can control the pump manually via a control page, or automatically via scheduled events. Getting feedback from the pump is easy, there are a number of approaches: simple AC current detection, or even a line voltage relay driving a digital input on some I/O board.

[EDIT} ... or take a look at these: http://www.controlbyweb.com/products.html in particular this one (at ~USD 235). Only caveat, you'd have to write a plugin or scripts to control it. Hmmm, you could try a Python wrapper around a Java core

I recently had to replace my pool pump and picked a Pentair Variable Speed Superflow, in part because, for some strange reason, I don't have 240 at the pump and needed a pump that would run from 120. It has been great and can be controlled and monitored via the Autelis Plugin for Indigo.

There's "default" programming and scheduling within the pump itself, so that if Indigo were to have problems the pump's default schedule would continue. That hasn't happened, but it's nice to have a backup. Using the Autelis plugin allows for changing of pump speed via Indigo, and enabling/disabling/changing setpoint of the solar heater. The internal pump programming knows to increase speed if I enable the heater, then resets to the previous (or scheduled) speed when the solar valve closes.

One benefit of the variable speed (beyond the energy savings, which have been great) is that the pump can run 24 hours a slower speed. That allows the salt system to work more evenly and allows me to collect better data, e.g. pool temp, for the IndigoPlotD plugin's graphs.