Indigo Domotics

DaveL17 wrote:

aldera wrote:

(Sliderules and IBM punch cards were my tools of the day when I went to college in the 60s!)

You and Jon will get along famously, then.

Hmmm... Didn’t think there were too many of us old farts on here.

aldera wrote:

DaveL17 wrote:

aldera wrote:

(Sliderules and IBM punch cards were my tools of the day when I went to college in the 60s!)

You and Jon will get along famously, then.

Hmmm... Didn’t think there were too many of us old farts on here.

Started programming using COBOL and Assembler on an IBM 360 mainframe with the aid of coding sheets, flowcharting templates and punched cards.

Hi Ralph,

aldera wrote:

... If I purchase a Hubitat C7 and used your plugin, is that all I would need to be able to control Zigbee devices from Indigo? I'm not familiar with MQTT so I'm not sure where it fits in here. ...

Most likely yes.

Take a look here to find out more about MQTT (Message Queuing Telemetry Transport): MQTT: The Standard for IoT Messaging

On the Hubitat C7, you need to install a MQTT App. This will communicate with a MQTT broker which you have to install. This is done most easily by installing Docker Desktop on your Indigo Mac and then installing a Mosquitto Docker image which is a MQTT broker. Then it is just a matter of configuring the MQTT App on the Hubitat and defining Hubitat hub(s) and devices in Indigo via my plugin.

Please note that my plugin is not available (yet) on github / Indigo plugin store. I would have to PM you a link to it from my pCloud account. The plugin is still very much in Alpha state and subject to ongoing change and improvement.

Hi Ralph

Jon's hubitat solution could likely turn out to be the simplest way to get full zigbee connectivity with Indigo (obviously bulbs work with the Philips Hue hub and plugin). However its not the cheapest.

There is another way that uses a zigbee USB stick (rather than a Hubitat hub) and a small program that can run on the Mac that converts the zigbee messages to/from MQTT (as the Hubitat software does) .
For both you need to run a MQTT broker on Mac or a NAS.

If you go with the USB stick you use the MQTT Shims plugin to setup the devices. There are templates to simplify that, but they need a bit of improvement still.

Either way, be aware that zigbee needs a good mesh to work, so you need bulbs or plug in sockets to act as repeaters.

In summary,
Both need MQTT broker running
Both need hub (Hubitat @£125 or USB stick @£25)
USB stick needs seperate software (free, zigbee2mqtt, can auto run on Mac)
Both need plugin (Jon's Hubitat vs MQTT Shims)
Both rely on the appropriate software (Hubitat vs zigbee2mqtt) supporting your Zigbee device. I am not sure how fast they onboard these, but I believe both have ways to do it yourself, but the supported device lists are very long). It will almost certainly be faster than Ingido supporting new Zwave devices for instance.

Jon, is above correct?

Simon

siclark wrote:

... Jon, is above correct?

Yes, it is a good summary.

And read my and Clive's warnings about Aqara sensors. They are cheap and generally work, but are not as reliable as they should be. I have 4 temp sensors and 3 are fine, one is v buggy, but at end of range, and doesnt use repeaters.

Generally though the zigbee hardware, is good and some cheaper options than Zwave, but does show in some cases, but not in a way that impacts performance.

Interestingly though where I have zwave modules on switches for main lights, and zigbee bulbs in lamps all in same room, I constantly see the zigbee bulbs turn on much quicker, 1-2 seconds than the zwave ones.

autolog wrote:

Hi Ralph,

aldera wrote:

... If I purchase a Hubitat C7 and used your plugin, is that all I would need to be able to control Zigbee devices from Indigo? I'm not familiar with MQTT so I'm not sure where it fits in here. ...

Most likely yes.

Take a look here to find out more about MQTT (Message Queuing Telemetry Transport): MQTT: The Standard for IoT Messaging

On the Hubitat C7, you need to install a MQTT App. This will communicate with a MQTT broker which you have to install. This is done most easily by installing Docker Desktop on your Indigo Mac and then installing a Mosquitto Docker image which is a MQTT broker. Then it is just a matter of configuring the MQTT App on the Hubitat and defining Hubitat hub(s) and devices in Indigo via my plugin.

Please note that my plugin is not available (yet) on github / Indigo plugin store. I would have to PM you a link to it from my pCloud account. The plugin is still very much in Alpha state and subject to ongoing change and improvement.

Looks like I'll have to do some reading up on the MQTT subject. I don't have any Zigbee devices right now but I noticed that a lot of them are somewhat cheaper now. When I first started playing around with HA, I could have sworn that Zigbee was at least as expensive or even more. Thanks for all the info so far and I'll take a look at the MQTT stuff and see if it's worth it.

Ralph

If you want to play cheaply, before committing , this stick is cheaper way to experiment with than the Hubitat hub

https://www.tindie.com/products/electrolama/zzh-cc2652r-multiprotocol-rf-stick/

Or there are even $5 sticks but they are harder to set up.

siclark wrote:

And read my and Clive's warnings about Aqara sensors. They are cheap and generally work, but are not as reliable as they should be. I have 4 temp sensors and 3 are fine, one is v buggy, but at end of range, and doesnt use repeaters.

Generally though the zigbee hardware, is good and some cheaper options than Zwave, but does show in some cases, but not in a way that impacts performance.

Interestingly though where I have zwave modules on switches for main lights, and zigbee bulbs in lamps all in same room, I constantly see the zigbee bulbs turn on much quicker, 1-2 seconds than the zwave ones.

Well I am completely anti Xiaomi Aqara devices having played with them using both Joe's MQTT Connector and Shims and Jon's Hubitat plugin.

The Aqara's refuse to keep connected to MQTT dongle or Hubitat, nothing wrong with the dongles (I have tried 2 types), nothing wrong with Hubitat or any of the plugins..... just Aqara.

I have an Aqara 2 button Opple which decides at will to associate buttons 3 and 4 to turn off/on the Salus 240v Socket as it tries to use it as a mesh repeater.

Aqara contact and motion sensors stay connected until they randomly decide to also use the Salus socket as a repeater then disappear off the network as Aqara in not full Zigbee compliant.

Today I have had my garage door open as the garage door Aqara 2 button wireless switch decides it 'saw' a single press when we were both 10 miles away having our first covid vaccination and tonight twice it did it again, once with a single press and once with a double press, we were having dinner watching the news at the time and 10 feet away from the switch!

Don't be put off by MQTT and Zigbee they are amazingly fast and reliable. Just don't bother with Aqara devices.

I however have 3 Opple switches, one that is bound directly to a zig bee bulb and is great, instant control, the others control via actions and indigo triggers and are very fast and accurate. Better than wireless zwave controllers I’ve had. The temperature sensors less so.
Sounds like you’ve got a dud switch there.
Mine though all are in good range of the main controller so maybe that helps?

aldera wrote:

Looks like I'll have to do some reading up on the MQTT subject. I don't have any Zigbee devices right now but I noticed that a lot of them are somewhat cheaper now. When I first started playing around with HA, I could have sworn that Zigbee was at least as expensive or even more. Thanks for all the info so far and I'll take a look at the MQTT stuff and see if it's worth it.

Ralph

And remember that MQTT is not just for Zigbee devices, the Shelly devices can use MQTT and they are much cheaper than Fibaro and Aeotec, I have a motorhome with Victron Solar Controller and Shunt which is wired to a Raspberry Pi running Victron software with built in MQTT and Node Red which when on the drive outside can see our WiFi so with Joe's plugins I can now see realtime the volts, current, power, State of Charge of the lithium battery and days left before it is empty, you can also use it to interface with personal weather stations and numerous other devices, which is why it is the standard for IoT interfacing.

BTW, I am no geek whizkid, I cannot code a plugin, my python is basic (very) and I had a lot of trouble getting my head around MQTT (still get confused with Shims), Node Red looks fun but I cannot do much with that either so don't give up, ask here and we all learn a bit more.

siclark wrote:

I however have 3 Opple switches, one that is bound directly to a zig bee bulb and is great, instant control, the others control via actions and indigo triggers and are very fast and accurate. Better than wireless zwave controllers I’ve had. The temperature sensors less so.
Sounds like you’ve got a dud switch there.
Mine though all are in good range of the main controller so maybe that helps?

Unfortunately the hub, either zigazigah or Hubitat are at one end of the bungalow in the third bedroom wardrobe (or as I like to call it the "server room") and the living rooms at the other end with most of the devices so the Aqara's grab onto the Salus Socket.

Dud switch or not I just do not trust the Aqara's anymore.

Ah yeah ok that’s not an great set up for them if they don’t repeat well.

autolog wrote:

aldera wrote:

DaveL17 wrote:

aldera wrote:

(Sliderules and IBM punch cards were my tools of the day when I went to college in the 60s!)

You and Jon will get along famously, then.

Hmmm... Didn’t think there were too many of us old farts on here.

Started programming using COBOL and Assembler on an IBM 360 mainframe with the aid of coding sheets, flowcharting templates and punched cards.

Well, a fellow Naval Officer named Grace Hopper had a little hand in developing the Cobol language. Never personally met her while I was in but I heard she was quite the lady.

Ralph

siclark wrote:

And read my and Clive's warnings about Aqara sensors. They are cheap and generally work, but are not as reliable as they should be. I have 4 temp sensors and 3 are fine, one is v buggy, but at end of range, and doesnt use repeaters.

Generally though the zigbee hardware, is good and some cheaper options than Zwave, but does show in some cases, but not in a way that impacts performance.

Interestingly though where I have zwave modules on switches for main lights, and zigbee bulbs in lamps all in same room, I constantly see the zigbee bulbs turn on much quicker, 1-2 seconds than the zwave ones.

Yes, I saw that. Thanks.

Ralph