When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

Posted on
Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:21 am
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

If only it were as simple as a recompile. When 3rd party libraries are involved (and there are several) it's never just a recompile...

Ain't that the truth! The standard programmer ritual goes something like...

1. Download and install updated AFNetworking library.
2. Hold breath. Make sign of the cross. No matter your religion. It can't hurt.
3. Hit compile.
4. Cover eyes with hands, make slit between two fingers and peek at progress for errors.
5. Curse the changes, start digging for fixes.

Posted on
Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:20 pm
Jann offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

jay (support) wrote:
durosity wrote:
I suppose part of the logic will be dropping 32 bit libraries, making iOS 11 leaner and a tad faster. Plus then I suppose less overheads for Apple maintaining two sets of components.


Faster? Maybe. Leaner? Unclear. Maintaining backwards compatibility? HUGE win for customer satisfaction.

Of course profit is more important, then you want people to upgrade as fast as you can shove them kicking and screaming... :roll:


It is far far more than this. It's also been over 3 years since Apple warned Devs about this...

iOS7 -> allowed 64 bit apps
iOS8 -> 32 & 64 bit in same app
iOS9 -> allowed 64 bit only
iOS10 -> enforced "this app may slow down your phone for 32-bit apps" (er, mostly enforced)

This "may slow down" is true as all 64-bit apps can access system frameworks that are already in memory (via other apps) and don't have to be reloaded for each app to use. As it sits now Indigo Touch has to load all the 32-bit frameworks (for UIKit, Foundation, etc). This *does* slow it down.

Also apps that use large memory databases or files don't swell in size when reading those file.. i.e. Mouseaddict (my Disneyland app) uses rather large overlays for the map and for park locations. Due to the way 64-bit apps allow memory access, Mouseaddict doesn't swell to 4 GB when it reads the database and map tiles. it stays around 100MB-300MB, growing when it uses some, then quickly shrinking it's footprint again when it is over.

All this is not criticizing the Indigo Domotics devs. It's just that I dislike when people say Apple didn't maintain backwards compatibility. There are few people having a non-64-bit iPhone -- and ALSO advanced enough to run (and pay for) Indigo to control their home and buy Zwave products with as fast as THEY are released?

My app shows less than 4% of people running on versions of iOS NOT 64-bit capable...and my app is free - so the cost isn't a limiting factor. Simple upgrade cycles that Apple has gotten their users used to. iOS versions and phones come out annually - mostly. We, as devs, must keep up or must remember not to blame Apple if we don't. Them's the breaks if we wanna be on iOS...which I - as a programmer - do. Do I hate it? Yes. Do I deal? Yes. Did 32->64 scare the bejesus out of me (before i did it?) yep! Was it that hard? Not really. The biggest thing? (and this is a no brainer...) covert all INTs to LONGs and I was more than 1/2-way there. I know all apps are not as easy but that really was 1/2 my battle.

I understand that ensuring all libraries are compatible and running 64-bit is time-consuming. BUT I would posit that it is more time-consuming to ensure the Python version you ship with Indigo is up to date - w/security and bug fixes, etc - as are the plugins you ship. I am sure you are doing roughly the same amount of work ensuring that Python is built with as many optimizations as you can get - in order to ensure Indigo has as few slow-downs as possible.

Just $.02 from a fellow programmer.

Jann

Posted on
Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:31 pm
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

The biggest thing? (and this is a no brainer...) covert all INTs to LONGs and I was more than 1/2-way there. I know all apps are not as easy but that really was 1/2 my battle.

Wait, what? There is absolutely no need to convert your 32-bit integers to 64-bit integers when compiling against a 64-bit processor. You will gain no speed and only increase your memory footprint. All (well, that is too blanket of a statement... virtually all) 64-bit processors can still align memory on 4-byte alignments. And loading a 32-bit integer variable into a 64-bit register has absolutely 0 measurable performance impact.

Also apps that use large memory databases or files don't swell in size when reading those file.. i.e. Mouseaddict (my Disneyland app) uses rather large overlays for the map and for park locations. Due to the way 64-bit apps allow memory access, Mouseaddict doesn't swell to 4 GB when it reads the database and map tiles. it stays around 100MB-300MB, growing when it uses some, then quickly shrinking it's footprint again when it is over.

If that is true then Apple had some serious issues in their older framework. What could possibly change between a 32-bit and 64-bit implementations to drop something like that? There is nothing inherent to the register size to make a difference in memory access other than avoiding the "tricks" that older, 32-bit systems could use to access large memory spaces. But this wouldn't explain a 4GB -> 100 MB drop. It would be a tiny percentage. This isn't a facetious question, I am genuinely curious what they would have made available in their new libraries to facilitate this drop.

Adam

Posted on
Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:44 am
nwykes offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

Looks like that day might be here soon. 10.3.2 (at least in the initial beta) drops 32bit support.

Posted on
Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:01 am
RogueProeliator offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

Looks like that day might be here soon. 10.3.2 (at least in the initial beta) drops 32bit support.

FWIW, the information I saw showed that they didn't publish a build for 32-bit devices... I haven't read anywhere that they dropped application support for 32-bit applications. Not saying it isn't the case, but I haven't read that anywhere. Seems weird that they would drop 32-bit device and/or application support in a point release... that makes me wonder if they just haven't made 32-bit builds yet for older devices. But, it is Apple and they definitely do what the want so you never know!

Posted on
Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:20 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

We agree with Adam on all counts...

We'll have a 64-bit release out before they officially end 32-bit support.

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:22 am
nwykes offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

Loaded up the beta and Indigo Touch is still working. Looks like it's just the builds for 32bit phones that's missing at this point, but 32bit apps are still running.

Posted on
Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:23 pm
PETStech offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

Today I justed installed iOS 10.3.1 on my iPad Air 2 and got the warning, attached.

So, no more iOS upgrades until a new version of Indigo Touch is available. Will a new version be released before iOS 10.3.2, or at the same time, or later?
Attachments
IndigoTouch_iOS10.3.1.png
IndigoTouch_iOS10.3.1.png (36.07 KiB) Viewed 2466 times

Posted on
Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:52 pm
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

PETStech wrote:
Today I justed installed iOS 10.3.1 on my iPad Air 2 and got the warning, attached.

So, no more iOS upgrades until a new version of Indigo Touch is available. Will a new version be released before iOS 10.3.2, or at the same time, or later?


It doesn't say this is the last version it will run on, just that it won't run on some future unspecified version. Read the whole thread.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
my plugins: http://forums.indigodomo.com/viewforum.php?f=177

Posted on
Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:16 pm
PETStech offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

:oops:

Posted on
Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:09 am
Welshdog offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

So I guess one reason Apple has never supported really old legacy software is that they want to avoid the stinking morass of legacy software (and support) that is DOS/Windows. This is not anything new. We can't run OS 7 or 8 on our modern systems and we can't even run not-so-old versions of X. So I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that Apple wants to stay with this policy. Certainly for them, it keeps things simple and cost effective from a support standpoint. They did support legacy once during the Intel transition, but even that didn't last long.

And Jay, when you say things like "Apple has lost its way (my personal belief)..." it makes me nervous. I really don't want to wake up someday and find that Indigodomo is announcing a move to Windows. I don't own a Windows computer and never have. And I never will.

Posted on
Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:36 pm
johnpolasek offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

Welshdog wrote:
And Jay, when you say things like "Apple has lost its way (my personal belief)..." it makes me nervous. I really don't want to wake up someday and find that Indigodomo is announcing a move to Windows. I don't own a Windows computer and never have. And I never will.


IMO, I'm pretty confident it won't be windows they move to... Waaaaay too much work and even more "M's way or the Highway" when Redmond makes arbitrary changes without reason or warning. If Indigo goes anywhere, it'll be (Gn?)unix.

Posted on
Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:09 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

Welshdog wrote:
And Jay, when you say things like "Apple has lost its way (my personal belief)..." it makes me nervous. I really don't want to wake up someday and find that Indigodomo is announcing a move to Windows. I don't own a Windows computer and never have. And I never will.


I think it's fair to say that we'll never move to Windows. I do believe Apple has lost it's way in many respects, quality being a big one. macOS is still, however, the best desktop platform available (again, IMO).

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Posted on
Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:56 pm
durosity offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

I'm hoping this little talk they had about pro macs is a commitment from them to the Mac platform. Fingers crossed the next macOS will be like snow leopard, not about features but about stabilising what they've got for those forthcoming pro machines.

Computer says no.

Posted on
Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:49 am
hoff_10 offline
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Re: When is the next release of Indigo Touch?

FlyingDiver wrote:
PETStech wrote:
Today I justed installed iOS 10.3.1 on my iPad Air 2 and got the warning, attached.

So, no more iOS upgrades until a new version of Indigo Touch is available. Will a new version be released before iOS 10.3.2, or at the same time, or later?


It doesn't say this is the last version it will run on, just that it won't run on some future unspecified version. Read the whole thread.


Some of us can't take that risk. I don't have access to my home without IT. Besides, how long has it been since IT has been updated? If we're expected to annually subscribe for Indigo now I think we should be able to expect better upkeep and more routine updates of the Indigo system, including IT.

I know it's already been stated that an update is forthcoming but some of this chatter about needing to update being nothing but a hassle is quite poor customer service.

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