Build a Relay Box so an ApplianceLinc Can Oper8 a Small Load

Hello,

I use LED light bulbs but an ApplianceLinc will not control such a small load. I built a relay box that works by the ApplianceLinc operating the relay and the relay applies power to the outlet on the box which in turn operates the lamp with the LED bulb.

I made a step by step set of instructions to build this relay box along with part numbers and wiring diagram but zipped is 104mb and I cannot submit it through the User Contributions page. I would like to submit it, can you help?

bob

[jay (support)]

Bob,

104MB? That's a really big picture! What did you create it in, and can you save it in something a bit smaller? We'd LOVE to have it up.

Actually, if it's step-by-step instructions, perhaps it should go into the How-To Wiki. Send me a PM (click the PM button at the bottom of this post) with more details on what you've got (file types, formats, etc) and we'll figure out the best was to get it posted.

[jay (support)]

Bob,

104MB? That's a really big picture! What did you create it in, and can you save it in something a bit smaller? We'd LOVE to have it up.

Actually, if it's step-by-step instructions, perhaps it should go into the How-To Wiki. Send me a PM (click the PM button at the bottom of this post) with more details on what you've got (file types, formats, etc) and we'll figure out the best was to get it posted.

OK, after a few false starts, we've got it uploaded and ready to go (it's just around 725k). Just look in the Miscellaneous section of the File Library for "How to build a relay box for your Appliancelinc".

Thanks much for the contribution!

Sorry but this doesn't make any sense. First of all, the Appliancelinc is supposed to be a relay output to begin with, so I don't see how a load could be too small for it to switch. Unless there's something I'm missing?

But even if that were the case, all you're really doing here is creating some additional load with the (massively overkill) relay coil itself - it's just acting as a heater! It's not even functioning as a switch, since it's just one circuit wired in and out of the same relay. If all you want to do is make a bigger load, the correct way to do that is with a power resistor. A 10K resistor rated for at least 2 watts would be equivalent to this relay - just wire it across the load. But that would still be silly.

As a side note, if the reason for using LED lighting is to reduce power consumption, you are defeating that purpose here. It might be easier to just use a less efficient bulb.

Yes you are missing something. The ApplianceLinc needs to see a small load to operate, an LED bulb does not provide enough of a load so the ApplianceLinc will not work. Read some of the posts. For example http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4454&highlight=led

The load from a small relay is not overkill and in fact is very small and the relay coil does not act as a heater. Left on all night a relay of this size doesn't even make the relay warm to the touch.

The relay does work as a switch. When the ApplianceLinc is activated it puts 120 volts to the relay which in turn uses the same 120 volts that power the relay to power the lights.

The LED bulbs I use in combination with the relay use .03 amps or 1 watt. Not what I'd call overkill.

In 2012 incandescent light bulbs will not be sold in Canada so this relay box allows me to use LED bulbs. I use it and it works great, I get more light for less cost. If you don't like the relay box then don't use it, simple as that.

When I say it's acting as a heater, I don't mean to an extent that it would be hot to the touch. I mean that the reason this works (assuming that the problem is due to some load detection circuitry in the AL) then it is because the relay is satisfying this requirement insofar as the _coil_ appears as a load. This takes energy to do, and that energy is converted to heat (laws 1 & 2 of thermodynamics).

I only just now went and read the fine manual for the AL... and thanks for the link, that clarifies it a bit. OK, so the purpose of the offending feature is so that if you have, say, a conventional lamp plugged into it that it can detect if you are trying to turn it on manually. That's a clever idea but I see no reason why, even if load detection fails, this should _prevent_ you from turning it on with an Insteon command. Is that really what happens? Or is the issue that you just don't want the LEDs to glow dimly when "off"?

A couple more comments on the relay specs after giving the datasheet a closer read: http://www.magnecraft.com/library/secti ... A_389F.pdf

The coil rating for this relay says that it consumes 1.44W. So you are using more energy to power the coil than to power your load. When I referred to it as "overkill" what I'm getting at is that this relay, being rated for 25A switching capacity, is large enough to be able to switch 25*120=3000 watts, or _thousands_ of these LED bulbs. Note however: it is still advisable for safety reasons to use a relay of this size when controlling an outlet, because you never know what somebody else might plug into that outlet. You don't want the relay to be the weak link between the load and the circuit breaker.

So... I like the craftsmanship, but I think there has to be a simpler solution. I'm also wondering if you're ruled out using an insteon dimmer to control these. LEDs would not have a linear brightness response to the dimmer, but it would probably work fine as an on/off switch. Depending on the electronics in the bulbs....