Zwave multi-channel association

Hi guys

Is there any way we could get there ability to do multi channel associations? I have a qubino flush 2 relay with 2 outputs that show as different devices in indigo. I want to control them separately by association from different zwave modules but at the moment I only get to see the master device and when I create the association both outputs of the relay module are activated.

Below is the feedback from Qubino support. Or is it possible to do this with a raw zwave command?

Thanks.



To control separate relay you need to set multichannel association.

With following values:
Group 8
Node ID (flush 2 relay)
Endpoint 1 or 2 depending which output you would like to use.

For setting multichannel association depends even on gateway itself.
Because not all gateways have function to set multichannel association.

[matt (support)]

Indigo doesn't currently have UI for sending/managing multi-channel associations. Internally we use them in a few cases with modules that require them to sync/work correctly, but we don't have any friendly UI exposed yet for the functionality. However, you should be able to send the raw Z-Wave commands to create them via the Interfaces->Z-Wave->Send Raw Z-Wave Command menu item. From the first popup menu choose the device that will be the sender/controller module, then for the raw bytes you'll want something like this:

0x8E 0x01     ASSOCIATION_GROUP_INDEX    0x00    RECEIVING_NODE_ID    RECEIVING_ENDPOINT_INDEX

where you will swap in integer values (either in decimal, or hexadecimal if you prefix with 0x) for the 3 values. Based on your description I think the last 2 values will be the node ID for your Qubino and 1 for the first relay, or 2 for the second relay. I believe the ASSOCIATION_GROUP_INDEX is the group # on the sending device though, not the Qubino. For a simple switch the value will likely be 0x01. I'm not sure what Group 8 in the Qubino's reply is for, but I'd ignore it for your first attempt at setting it.

If it doesn't work, then the command to remove the association is identical, except the second byte should be 0x04 instead of 0x01.

Please let me know if it works for you.

Cheers Matt. This is why I love indigo, and wish someone had told me to drop Vera years ago.

It's 2 qubino dimmers I have that I want to use to control 2 different end points on a qubino flush 2 relay.
Group 8 is the association group for the dimmers' I3 inputs that I will use.

Will give it a go tonight and hopefully, as with most things indigo, it should be straightforward.

Just to confirm, I want to associate my dimmer which is address 21 using its I3 input which is group 8 to control my relay which is address 18 and endpoint 2 I use

0x8E 0x01 8 0x00 18 2 or 0x8E 0x01 0x08 0x12 0x02 ? these should be the same?

When I select the sending device I see all 3 inputs of the dimmer appear as target devices.

When I sent to I1 I go this, and nothing happened.

Z-Wave Debug SENT sendRawZwaveCommand: 01 10 00 13 14 09 60 0D 01 01 8E 01 08 12 02 25 DB E5
Z-Wave sent "Kitchen spots 1" raw command [8E 01 08 12 02]

When I sent to I2 I got this. and nothing happened
Z-Wave Debug SENT sendRawZwaveCommand: 01 10 00 13 14 09 60 0D 01 02 8E 01 08 12 02 25 D9 E4
Z-Wave sent "Kitchen spots 1" raw command [8E 01 08 12 02]

But when I sent to I3 I got a very different raw Zwave command and the I3 input (which is group was associated with both node 18 (0x12) that I wanted, although both end points, but also node 2 (0x02).
Z-Wave Debug SENT sendRawZwaveCommand: 01 0C 00 13 14 05 8E 01 08 12 02 25 DE 9D
Z-Wave sent "Kitchen spots 1" raw command [8E 01 08 12 02]

So I think I need to send to this target device, of the dimmer I3, however it is trying to associate to 18 and 2 rather than endpoint 2 of 18. Do I need another separation string to distinguish from multiple devices to endpoint?

Wohoooo!


Thanks Matt! It´s working fine over here in Sthlm, SWEDEN after a couple of attempts!

I have been able to use your "Send Raw Z-Wave" command examples to get relay output 2 on ZMNHBD to light up when enabling input i3 on ZMNHDD dimmer and relay output 1 on ZMNHBD when enabling input I2 on ZMNHDD dimmer.
The delay fully acceptable, less than a second.

@siclark: Make SURE that you have changed your ZMNHDD to enable I2 and I3 notifications: param 100 and 101 must be set to 9 AND then done the SOFT reset procedure PROPERLY on the dimmer device ZMNHDD. If you have done the soft reset correctly then the Indigo device menu command "Write Device Details to Log" should output something similar to this:

Code: Select all

Indigo Z-Wave Version: 2.0.91
Node ID: 67
Model: Flush Micro Dimmer (ZMNHDD)
Model ID: 00010051
Manufacturer: Qubino
Manufacturer ID: 0159
Protocol Version: 4.05
Application Version: 1.01
Model Definition Version: 5
Library Type: 3
Class Name: Dimmable Power Switch
Class Hierarchy: 04 : 11 : 01
Command Class Base: 26
Command Versions: 20v1 85v1 86v1 8Ev1 59v1 5Av1 5Ev1 60v4 30v1 25v1 26v3 27v1 72v1 70v1 32v4 73v1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: 1:(11 : 01), 2:(20 : 00), 3:(20 : 00)
Multi-Endpoint Classes: 1:[5E 86 20 27 25 26 32 85 8E 59], 2:[5E 86 20 30 71 85 8E 59], 3:[5E 86 20 30 71 85 8E 59]
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: routing, beaming, energyMeter
Neighbors: 10, 63
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[] 4:[1] 5:[] 6:[] 7:[] 8:[] 9:[] 10:[] 11:[1]
Config Values: 1:0 2:0 3:0 100:9 101:9 65:100 66:3 110:32536 20:0 21:0 120:5 4:0 60:1 61:99 30:0

The important parts are the lines (if I understood it correctly):

Code: Select all

Command Versions: 20v1 85v1 86v1 8Ev1 59v1 5Av1 5Ev1 60v4 30v1 25v1 26v3 27v1 72v1 70v1 32v4 73v1
Multi-Endpoint Types: 1:(11 : 01), 2:(20 : 00), 3:(20 : 00)
Multi-Endpoint Classes: 1:[5E 86 20 27 25 26 32 85 8E 59], 2:[5E 86 20 30 71 85 8E 59], 3:[5E 86 20 30 71 85 8E 59]
Config Values: 1:0 2:0 3:0 100:9 101:9 65:100 66:3 110:32536 20:0 21:0 120:5 4:0 60:1 61:99 30:0

I have now been able to use I2 and I3 of the dimmer device ZMNHDD to control ZMNHBD relay 1 and relay 2 individually based on the on/off state of I2 and I3 on dimmer.

My ZMNHDD dimmer has node ID 67 (0x43) and my ZMNHBD 2x relay has node ID 63 (0x3F) in the examples below.
I2 state for the ZMNHDD dimmer is sent as basic on/off status report on association group 5 according to the manual.
I3 state for the ZMNHDD dimmer is sent as basic on/off status report on association group 8 according to the manual.

I used the commands:

Code: Select all

Z-Wave Debug                    SENT sendRawZwaveCommand: 01 11 00 13 43 0A 60 0D 01 02 8E 01 08 00 3F 01 25 88 CE
   Z-Wave                          sent "067 - Input 2" raw command [8E 01 08 00 3F 01

and

Code: Select all

Z-Wave Debug                    SENT sendRawZwaveCommand: 01 11 00 13 43 0A 60 0D 01 02 8E 01 05 00 3F 02 25 89 C2
    Z-Wave                          sent "067 - Input 2" raw command [8E 01 05 00 3F 02]

and I am now able control ZMNHBD relay 1 on/off based on I2 on the ZMNHDD dimmer and ZMNHBD relay 2 on/off based on I3 on the ZMNHDD dimmer.
So coooooooool!

Still no luck here

I send this to my dimmer to the I3 of my Target Device dimmer ,although also tried sending it to the main device as well.

Z-Wave Debug SENT sendRawZwaveCommand: 01 11 00 13 1A 0A 60 0D 01 03 8E 01 08 00 12 01 25 B6 85
Z-Wave sent "Kitchen Spots 2" raw command [8E 01 08 00 12 01]

but nothing happened.

This is when I sent it to the main device
Z-Wave Debug SENT sendRawZwaveCommand: 01 11 00 13 1A 0A 60 0D 01 01 8E 01 08 00 12 01 25 C4 F5
Z-Wave sent "Kitchen Spots 2" raw command [8E 01 08 00 12 01]

This is the device config

Z-Wave Indigo Device "Kitchen Spots 2" Z-Wave Properties:
Indigo Z-Wave Version: 2.0.68
Node ID: 26
Model: Flush Micro Dimmer (ZMNHDD)
Model ID: 00010051
Manufacturer: Qubino
Manufacturer ID: 0159
Protocol Version: 4.05
Application Version: 3.05
Model Definition Version: 5
Library Type: 3
Class Name: Dimmable Power Switch
Class Hierarchy: 04 : 11 : 01
Command Class Base: 26
Command Versions: 20v1 85v1 86v1 8Ev1 59v1 5Av1 5Ev1 60v4 30v1 25v1 26v3 27v1 72v1 70v1 71v1 32v4 73v1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: 1:(11 : 01), 2:(20 : 00), 3:(20 : 00)
Multi-Endpoint Classes: 1:[5E 85 8E 59 27 25 26 32 71], 2:[5E 85 8E 59 30 71], 3:[5E 85 8E 59 30 71]
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: routing, beaming, energyMeter
Neighbors: 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 18, 25
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[] 4:[1] 5:[] 6:[] 7:[] 8:[] 9:[] 10:[] 11:[1]
Config Values: 1:0 2:0 3:0 100:9 101:9 65:100 66:3 110:32536 20:1 21:1 120:5 4:0 60:1 61:99 30:0

You seem to have more Multi-Endpoint Classes on 2 and 3? Do you think that matters?

@siclark:

I think that you might have answered this in the other thread were we discussed a similar approach:

1. Are you sure that you have done the strange SOFT reset procedure AFTER you enabled I2 and I3 inputs on your ZMNHDD dimmer? Even though the device GUI in Indigo (under Edit Device) shows that they are enabled you MUST have done the soft reset procedure of the ZMNHDD dimmer.
Soft reset: Enable I2 and I3 notifications, then start exclusion in Indigo and press the service button on the back of the device for 3 to MAX 6 seconds. VERY IMPORTANT! Remove power from ZMNHDD and wait 30-45 seconds and then attach power again and perform a re-inclusion into Indigo and then re-sync into the same device again.

2. Can you verify that you get I2 and I3 on/off notifications in Indigo GUI or debug log when you turn on I2 or I3 on the ZMNHDD dimmer?

3. I can see in your device log that you have "application version" 3.05 while I have an older version 1.01. I know that Qubino has done quite big changes in multi-endpoint protocol for these devices between firmware revisions which makes it somewhat messy.

4. Did I understand you correctly that you want I2 and I3 states out of your dimmer ZMNHDD to activate/deactivate relay 1 and 2 on a Qubino ZMNHBD 2x flush relay? So I3 enabled on dimmer ZMNHDD will enable relay 2 (endpoint 2) on your ZMNHBD?

5. If you have been messing with associations back and forth between the two devices I suggest you reset associations completely BOTH way by sending the raw commands:

0x8E 0x01 ASSOCIATION_GROUP_INDEX 0x00 RECEIVING_NODE_ID RECEIVING_ENDPOINT_INDEX

You wrote that your ZMNHDD dimmer is node 21 and your ZMNHBD relay is node 18. In order to reset associations both ways you would send the following raw commands(but NOT removing the association with the controller):
0x8E 0x04 0x05 0x00 0x15 0x01 to remove association on input I2 from the dimmer
0x8E 0x04 0x08 0x00 0x15 0x02 to remove association on input I3 from the dimmer
0x8E 0x04 0x05 0x00 0x12 0x01 to remove association on relay 1 (endpoint 1)
0x8E 0x04 0x08 0x00 0x12 0x01 to remove association on relay 2 (endpoint 1)

When you have done this you should go into Edit Device for both the dimmer and the relay and check that the only association you see on both devices is the association with the controller (should be something like this for the ZMNHDD dimmer "Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[] 4:[1] 5:[] 6:[] 7:[] 8:[] 9:[] 10:[] 11:[1]")

When you have confirmed that no other associations than to the controller only are activated then proceed with setting the association from the dimmer to your relay with sending to your dimmer
0x8E 0x01 0x05 0x00 0x12 0x01, i.e. you are sending this to your dimmer at node 21 (hex 0x15) and setting association group 5 to node 18 (hex 0x12) and endpoint one on node 18
Then for the other output I3 on your dimmer you send to the dimmer
0x8E 0x01 0x08 0x00 0x12 0x02, i.e. you are sending this to your dimmer at node 21 (hex 0x15) and setting association group 8 to node 18 (hex 0x12) and endpoint two on node 18

Now go again into Edit Device on your dimmer and check that association group 5 has node 21 in there and association group 8 also has node 21.
I guess you should be able to see that as well under Edit Device for the relay.

I am not 100% sure on these steps since I had already removed my test setup but looking on my logs below it should work this way. I might have some time to test this again in my dev environment during the weekend if you can't get it to work this time.

Hi,

I did do a soft reset but per the instructions, using I1

Module Exclusion/Reset (Removing from ZWave
network)
 Connect module to power supply
 bring module within maximum 1 meter (3feet) of the main controller,
 enable add/remove mode on main controller,
 press push button I1 five times within 3s ( 5 times change switch state within 3 seconds) in the first 60 seconds after the module is connected to the power
supply or
 press service button S (only applicable for 24 V SELV supply voltage) for more than 6 second. By this function all parameters of the module are set to
default values and own ID is deleted.
If push button I1 is pressed three times within 3s (or service button S is pressed more than 2 and less than 6 seconds) module is excluded, but configuration parameters are not set to default values.
NOTE: If the module is included with parameters 100 or 101 with values different to default and module reset is done, wait at least 30s before next inclusion.

I do see I3 changing the device state icon on the GUI and on the log so appears to have worked correctly. My I2 is part of the 3 way switch.

I have 2 dimmers and I want to connect I3 on one dimmer to relay endpoint 1 and I3 on the other dimmer to relay endpoint 2.

I dont see anything on the associations change when I follow your reset associations and then try and do the correct associations. I only have
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[] 4:[1] 5:[] 6:[] 7:[] 8:[] 9:[] 10:[] 11:[1]
Config Values: 1:0 2:0 3:0 4:0 65:100 66:3 20:1 21:1 30:0 100:9 101:9 110:32536 120:5 60:1 61:99
even after doing 0x8E 0x01 0x08 0x00 0x12 0x02
However if I do normal associations, then I do see node 18 appear in association group 8 and it works, just it controls both end points..

AS you say, I wonder if the multi-channel association command could be different on the newer firmware?

I did do a soft reset but per the instructions, using I1

Yepp the manual states that I1 must be used when not connected to 24VDC. However, I think that is only for safety reasons so that users do not handle the unit while connected to lethal voltage levels. I prefer to use the Service button (S) since it is more precise. Has worked MUCH better than using I1.

I do see I3 changing the device state icon on the GUI and on the log so appears to have worked correctly.

Ok cool then we have at least verified that your device is set up correctly with I3 notifications shown in Indigo GUI and debug log.

I have 2 dimmers and I want to connect I3 on one dimmer to relay endpoint 1 and I3 on the other dimmer to relay endpoint 2.

He he I think I finally have your goal with this setup all clear now.

I dont see anything on the associations change when I follow your reset associations and then try and do the correct associations. I only have
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[] 4:[1] 5:[] 6:[] 7:[] 8:[] 9:[] 10:[] 11:[1]
Config Values: 1:0 2:0 3:0 4:0 65:100 66:3 20:1 21:1 30:0 100:9 101:9 110:32536 120:5 60:1 61:99
even after doing 0x8E 0x01 0x08 0x00 0x12 0x02
However if I do normal associations, then I do see node 18 appear in association group 8 and it works, just it controls both end points..

A you say, I wonder if the multi-channel association command could be different on the newer firmware?

Are you sending the raw command "0x8E 0x01 0x08 0x00 0x12 0x02" to your dimmer device that has node 21?

Indeed if you can create a normal association that shows up in the associations list but not when yo do the raw command I really start to suspect differencies between your and mine firmwares. I am not sure if this is an issue with different firmware on the dimmer or the flush relay or even both.

Can you check on the back of your both devices what HxSyPz numbers you see on both of them? I´ll check mine when I am back at home.

Maybe you just need a different raw command in order to create the association properly with your newer firmware and maybe you can contact Qubino and tell them that the raw command above works for others with older firmware while it does not work for you. The might be able to tell you what raw command you should send.

@Matt: Do you have any idea if there is a difference in multi-endpoint capsulation on these devices? I have a small sense of talking about these differences when we were debugging Qubino devices problematic end point differences when syncing in them into Indigo.

Aaaah found the post in the OpenZWave GitHub now! Very interesting to read!
https://github.com/OpenZWave/open-zwave/issues/976
I am not sure if this explains your problems but it indeed could.
At least there IS a difference in how Qubino handles multi-endpoints depending on what firmware the device has.

Hi thanks for this.
Yes sending that raw command to device 21 (although is now 27 as I've excluded and resynced a few times. When I send raw command to device 27 I see all 3 endpoints as options and have tried I1 and I3 but same on each. Nothing happens

Thankfully I have a photo of my installation before I put it all together and the one I am trying to do first is H1S3P4.

I'll chase qubino for a suggestion as well unless @Matt or @Jay know of an alternate command for the newer firmware?

Ok so it is your ZMNHDD dimmer that has H1S3P4?
Some of my ZMNHDD1 dimmers has H1S2P2 so obviously I have an older version but I need to check the one that I actually tested with. It might have S4 as the firmware.

How about your Qubino Flush x2 relay ZMNHBD1? What is the firmware version on that one when you look at the back of the device?

I need to look at the relay switch tonight, I don't have a photo of that.

[matt (support)]

@Matt: Do you have any idea if there is a difference in multi-endpoint capsulation on these devices? I have a small sense of talking about these differences when we were debugging Qubino devices problematic end point differences when syncing in them into Indigo.

I'm afraid I haven't any ideas on this one. There are some subtle differences between how the two devices report their capabilities but I don't believe they themselves explain the problem (they just prove that the firmware does indeed have functional differences).

One thing I spotted, which is a long shot, is that on his config parameter 20 set to 1 but on yours it is set to 0. That is the 3-way mode parameter. That shouldn't change the behavior of the I3 input, but it would be at least an interesting to temporarily disable it just to make sure.

And I just couldn't resist to test my own setup in my dev environment that worked fine during the first test.

Since I had moved my Aeon Labs S5 stick to my prod environment I first tried with ZWAVE.ME UZB1 stick on my dev machine but when trying to sync in the device into Indigo it just timed out all the time on "Assign return route" debug row. What the heck?!

I then removed that UZB1 stick from ZWAVE.ME and inserted my old and well proven Aeon Labs S2 stick and after installing the VCP drivers I was able to sync in both dimmer ZMNHDDx and relay ZMNHBDx without any issues.


My ZMNHDDx dimmer has H1S2P1 as the marking on the back and Indigo reports it as application version 4.05 and protocol version 1.01.
My ZMNHBDx 2x relay has H1S5P1 as the marking on the back and Indigo reports it as application version 4.05 and protocol version 1.02


After the normal inclusion of both devices I enabled I2 and I3 on ZMNHDDx and then did the exclusion, soft-reset, wait 30 seconds, include and resync. All good so far, I do get I2 and I3 status updates but it takes 3-5 seconds to get those updates from the device (which we already now).


I now issued the Z-Wave raw command 0x8E 0x01 0x08 0x00 0x04 0x02 to my dimmer at node 3 (my relay is at node 4 in this example)
With this raw command I am setting group 8 to be associated with endpoint 2 on the ZMNHBD relay = i.e relay 2.
Z-Wave sent "3 - Dimmer" raw command [8E 01 08 00 04 02]


After that I check the association on my relay (NOT the dimmer) and I can now see that group 8 is associated with Z-Wave controller?! There is NO info about the relay endpoint 2 being associated with the dimmer I3 that has node 0x03?

Anyway I tested by enabling input 3 on my ZMNHDDx dimmer and voilaaaaa! The lamp on my relay 2 on ZMNHBDx lights on. Still takes approx 0.5 to 1 second but much faster than looking for the I3 state going on in Indigo debug log.


I now send the raw Z-Wave command 0x8E 0x01 0x05 0x00 0x04 0x01 to my dimmer at node 3 (my relay still at node 4 in this example):
Z-Wave sent "3 - Dimmer" raw command [8E 01 05 00 04 01]


After that I check the association on my relay (NOT the dimmer) and I can still see that group 8 is associated with Z-Wave controller and nothing about the new assocation for group 5?! There is NO info about the relay endpoint 1 being associated with the dimmer I2 that has node 0x03?


Anyway I tested by enabling input 2 on my ZMNHDDx dimmer and voilaaaaa! The lamp on my relay 1 on ZMNHBDx lights on. Same here, still takes approx 0.5 to 1 second but much faster than looking for the I3 state going on in Indigo debug log.

So I have been able to reproduce my successful attempts with Indigo 7.1, Z-Wave plugin 2.0.103 and ZMMHDDx with H1S2P1 and ZMNHBDx with H1S5P1.

Let me know if you want my device log info for both of my devices.

Cheers.. One last thing before I wait for Qubino to hopefully reply with the updated command for my firmware.
Whats the setup of your flush 2 relay like?

This is mine.

Indigo Z-Wave Version: 2.0.103
Node ID: 18
Model: Flush 2 Micro Relay (ZMNHBD)
Model ID: 00020051
Manufacturer: Qubino
Manufacturer ID: 0159
Protocol Version: 4.05
Application Version: 5.00
Model Definition Version: 5
Library Type: 3
Class Name: Relay Power Switch
Class Hierarchy: 04 : 10 : 01
Command Class Base: 25
Command Versions: 20v1 60v4 25v1 86v1 27v1 72v1 8Ev1 70v1 32v4 73v1 59v1 5Av1 5Ev1 85v1
Encryption Status: Not Supported
Multi-Endpoint Types: 1:(10 : 01), 2:(10 : 01)
Multi-Endpoint Classes: 1:[5E 86 25 20 27 85 8E 59 32], 2:[5E 86 25 20 27 85 8E 59 32]
Multi-Instance Counts: - none -
Features: routing, beaming, energyMeter
Neighbors: 3, 6, 20, 21
Associations: 1:[1] 2:[] 3:[] 4:[] 5:[] 6:[] 7:[] 8:[1]
Config Values: 64:0 1:1 2:1 110:32536 120:5 30:0 63:0

Could that explains anything?
Thanks