Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see supported

+1

I don't know how it would work, but if tools that displayed what was being received from an unknown device could be made available, there's plenty of us could undergo an identification/mapping process to create a device profile that others could test.


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[jay (support)]

We're evaluating a variety of options for speeding up new device support, particularly for those that are relatively straight-forward config/ID changes. One thing to remember is that some new devices require code changes, so for that subset of devices it will always require an actual release from us.

We get lots of requests for official support for functionality provided by 3rd party plugins. The reasons vary for the requests, but one of the big ones is the comfort in knowing the functionality will continue to be maintained, supported, and updated indefinitely.

While I see both sides of the discussion, I tend to agree with some of the others that perhaps a middle ground could be found in some way... If the Plugin Store that you've mentioned before were ever to be done, perhaps you could have a badge/seal/program/whatever - some sort of "endorsement" such that the developer agreed that you may take over support and own the code in the even he/she drops the ball. You could invite select plugins to be given the seal and highlight them as an official support of some kind. I'm sure you've thought of this kind of idea, just throwing my support behind it. (And yes, I know that is a little scary to think of guaranteeing the taking over someone's random code...)

I would be a bit disappointed for you taking over an existing functionality plugin from the perspective, as mentioned before, of "what did we lose to gain little-to-nothing." It is possible you alienate some developers too and potentially lose their other plugins (NOT saying this would happen with these guys in particular as it would depend on perception/personality/etc. of the developer) Do the other platforms that you consider Indigo competing against officially support, say Sonos and Nest, or do they too rely on plugins?

You just need another developer focused exclusively on plugins! So if official support argument grows the company enough so that the net result is more features and code, I change my answer and reasoning!

I can imagine the scene, Jay and Matt discussing Indigo 7, debating about what "in the news" device to support to give Indigo a real edge and then one of them said "let's ask the users". Pretty sure that it wasn't a desire to open up a whole discussion on the future of plugins

That said, it's good to see some passion about the subject and some good ideas. I've finally found some time to add my three pennies worth to the conversation having been a little more than overwhelmed with iFindStuff alpha. I guess that's my first point, I do take developing plugins seriously because I think it's a great hobby and I get a lot of pleasure from it. I don't do it for the kudos, or the money (I wish) or even to prove that I still can code after 30 years since I did it properly (Fortran, Pascal and Cobol before you ask and the OOP approach has been a philosophical shift for me). For Jay & Matt this is their livelihood and they've got to make decisions based on what they think is best for Indigo and the community.

So if they feel that the future of Indigo is best secured by creating official plugins for NEST, Geolocation or Amazon Echo then I don't think I'm in a position to argue - that's their prerogative. I choose those three because the first two I have two plugins in the 3rd Party area for those and I'd not made a secret of the fact that I've now got me AE from the US and I've built a plugin proof of concept for it. Thinking about it, rather than writing plugins I should just indicate that I'm thinking about doing it

So do I find it annoying/irritating if my plugins are replaced by official ones? - No because for me they've served their purpose - I'm learning python & java and I enjoy it. If other people can benefit then that's great too. If it helps indigo to grow having more official apps then that can only be good for the company and by default it's users - i.e. me!

Am I concerned? - only that the support of additional modules/plugins is going distract M&J from the real work of extending the functionality of Indigo and working their way through the LIST. Would I have developed plugins if I'd know they would be replaced by an official one? Probably not - but I would have done something to improve my systems functionality in the meantime because it's my hobby.

Is there a middle ground for official 3rd party plugins? - some form of app store approach I think so. As I'd observe that Apple and Google think the same way. What is important that there are standards, design elements and support requirements that should be documented and agreed. I like Adam's, Jon's and Karl's ideas about peer review and documentation standards. I'd certainly support such an approach and I'd continue to benefit both in skills and enjoyment. I also like the other ideas about device support etc...

So perhaps, given the response, it's time to discuss this properly as a thread rather than hijacking another one. Any thoughts?

Mike

I also don't see much point in adding official support for devices when plugins do the job. People are used to install add-ons, extensions (browsers) and third-party apps on their phones. If someone is not buying Indigo because there is no official support for some device then his/her loss. I wouldn't think there are too many of those people around anyway. I would however strongly suggest that we need a better system to support new devices and new variations of devices. This is what's holding me from implementing more home automation.

I'd love to see a "Plugin Store", for lack of a better name.

Basically an app store for Indigo Plugins where developers -- both official (i.e. Perceptive Automation devs) and independent devs -- could hawk their Indigo plugin wares and make money.

In the case of Indy devs, I think it'd increase the chance that the plugin would be supported longer term. I also think it'd likely lead to a stronger plugin ecosystem overall because there's at least some additional incentive behind creating a plugin versus just creating a plugin to scratch your own itch as things are today.

For Perceptive, I think there'd be a number of benefits -- not the least of which being the ability to monetize the addition of device/technology support additions directly. Also the ability to more precisely allocate where your [likely very] limited time input is going so that it simultaneously helps/impacts the highest number of users (i.e. the stuff leading the polls in this vote thread) while also directly bringing in additional revenues.

Additionally, assuming PA facilitated the transactions, you guys could take a small percentage for the service -- and not to be discounted is that it should definitely help create a more robust and more broad feature-set of supported devices/technologies which just serves to make the actual Indigo app that much more valuable due to the robust ecosystem that would surround it.

The only downside is that it'd cost users, like me, some extra money -- but let's face it, I'm [we are] shelling out $xxx on irrigation controllers (vs the $20-30 for a digital timer), likely thousands of dollars on switches/lighting controls, hundreds on 'smart' thermostats, voice/automation devices like Echo, etc.. the list goes on and on. I'd be more than happy to pay $5-20+ for a well-done plugin to enhance the functionality of these technologies & devices and have them be more integrated into my system.

There are some features/plugins that I'd very likely pay a lot more for even, especially when the alternatives are writing it all ourselves or (eek) paying for Control4 or Crestron or similar...

FWIW, I'm thinking something pretty small/crude, not a huge "App Store" or anything terribly crazy -- likely just there's a SaaS offering or a open source offering that would get you 90% of the way there in terms of a "store for downloadable e-goods".

Just my 2cents!

[jay (support)]

A plugin store has always been the goal at some point (we understand the value very well), it's just a matter of when. Seems unlikely for Indigo 7 but more likely beyond that.

Indigo 7s?

The update with a few goodies that follows only a few months after Indigo 7? Or is it only Apple does that?


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Indigo 7s The update with a few goodies that follows only a few months after Indigo 7? Or is it only Apple does that?

IIRC when they released Indigo 6 there was a subset of those fussing about having to purchase a new version and product; they also probably went out and bought the iPhone 5, 5s, 6 and then 6s. So yeah, I think that is only Apple that can pull off the "release something without everything, then update later. And people will pay for it again too sometimes." It is rather impressive that they can pull it off, not dissing them. I can list many faults with Apple, but neither design nor marketing will be in there!

Yep, you've summed it up nicely there.


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Ecobee, Sonos and how about the new Apple TV

crazy idea: indigoDomo develops a market model for plugins. think in terms of an "app store", but for plugins. indigo sets up the basic store and can process payments. indigo owners/users register one time and then can effectively do "in-app purchases" to buy plugins. indigo developers do a one-time registration, then can submit apps to the store. IndigoDomo takes a cut (maybe 30%, maybe higher, maybe lower) and gives the rest to the plugin developer.

offhand, i'd hope to see something like this: the mature and "substantial" plugins (offhand, i know of the Sonos plugin, INDIGOPlotD, etc) might command $40-100 or perhaps even higher. smaller/simpler single-device plugins would live more at the $10-20 level. more plugin developers would be attracted to the market. each time a new device or technology started to emerge, plugin developers would push to make plugins available to allow users to take advantage of the market of users wanting to use it.

indigoDomo could a few items like the candidates at the top of this thread into the store and develop them themselves and put them in the app store alongside 3rd party offerings. they would be invented by continued sales of the indigo base product, by sales of their own plugins, and by sales of 3rd party plugins to build a rich and robust platform with good plugin support.

maybe we could see support for z-wave locks, which i know is technically possible but which apparently does not fit well with the existing indigo pricing model. i know i personally would pay an extra $100 for this.

ideally if this plan works, those that want more functionality, can pay for it. those that don't, don't have to bear the extra cost associated with development, licensing, certification, and/or support. the entry cost for new users of the platform remains low, but not at the expense of keeping indigo capable of driving high-end systems. indigo grows and succeeds as a product. a rich market of 3rd party plugins emerges and some plugin developers receive some compensation for their great work. users get a more capable product and more choice over where to spend. they also get better assurance that the platform they are investing their time and money in will continue to grow and thrive, even in a diverse and rapidly evolving product/protocol landscape. win win win.

[jay (support)]

It's been on the list since the beginning of plugins - just a matter of when to implement. We asked developers and there was a surprisingly small number who said they would actually charge if the store were available. Now, if it were there, they might change their minds, and we do think it's worth doing at some point.

I have read the posts about having a plugin store and while I would like to see one I don't think it's going to make a huge difference. Firstly most plugin authors seem to be doing plugins because they like doing them and because they want to solve their own automation problems rather than making a profit on them. I suspect this is the reason as to why they didn't get much excited as Jay mentions above. If I were to do a plugin I will probably not want to charge anything for it as that will mean I will have to properly support people that paid for it. My guess is that most plugin developers wouldn't want that burden. That's not to say that a plugin store may attack other developers or companies willing to do plugins for money. But for that to happen Indigo will need to become much more easy to use. I have been able to do pretty much anything I wanted with Indigo. But it has been a long and hard road and I doubt someone without IT experience will be able to get as far a lot of people in this thread and forums have been able to do.

Therefore my wish has to go for making Indigo simpler to use (albeit not removing the power for the geeks out there). By lowering the barrier and making home automation more simple to use more people will join us. They will buy more Indigo licenses, more Z-Wave devices and so on. By growing the market we will give Indigo more resources to do more and we will have more options when buying devices to do more home automation.

I'd like to see a store.

Not as a means of charging for plugins - the beauty of the Indigo community is most plugin authors are happy to offer their plugins for free - but as a means of categorising, searching, filtering and updating plugins.

That doesn't preclude authors from charging if they wish, or (as in DomoPad) the community insisting the author accepts payment.

A new option within the plugin store might be voluntary donations. No donation is required to download the plugin, but if you really value its features you choose to donate to the author.


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I know its been said in other forums, but I still think IFTTT support in Indigo 7 would be the bees knees.