Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see supported

Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see added to and/or officially supported in Indigo?












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Posted on
Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:55 pm
spiv offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

Just thinking out loud here, but..

Would love to see Indigo consider some kind of dedicated server "appliance". I'm thinking along the lines of a Raspberry Pi which retails for under $50 easily with a power supply and a simple plastic enclosure.

What I envision is a "run-time" version of Indigo that executes schedules, handles devices, and the web server that supports the RESTful interface and Indigo Touch / Control Pages. All the configuration, user interface, rules building, etc. would still run on a Mac and be downloaded into the Pi. So a Mac would be used as the UI/configuration workstation, but would not be needed for the running system. (I suspect that the "run-time loop" of Indigo, is relatively small and would be possible to put into an embedded device.) This would be a great way for systems integrators/installers to get more people using Indigo as one could bring a laptop to the client to configure/make changes, but the hardware investment for the consumer would be much lower.

The problem I see that is many people simply view the cost of a Mac (even a Mac mini which new is $500 without keyboard, mouse, or screen) as much too high an entry-point. I disagree, and think the value spent on a Mac plus Indigo Software saves hundreds or even thousands of dollars in the long-run, but it is a tough sell and will only get harder with Apple HomeKit becoming decent (but not great) with the iOS 10 release and the new "Home" app. (Not to mention Samsung building the SmartThings hub into every TV they make and other cheap consumer hubs/bridges becoming more popular.)

I know a Pi is quite powerful and certainly could do the job. I would even say a MVP (minimum viable product) might be to only support official devices (Insteon and Z-Wave via USB modems/controllers) and not support 3rd party plug-ins. I think Pi's easily run python so plug-ins are certainly possible, but maybe the MVP would be a good test of viability and less effort to at least try something in a 6 month rather than 6-year timeframe.

Posted on
Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:08 am
Different Computers offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

A couple of things:

WeMo fans: they're cheap for a reason! I've read dozens of reports of the devices being very, very unreliable.

RE: a dedicated appliance--coming from SmartThings, one of the things I value highly is that Indigo runs on a general purpose computer. This adds tremendous power and flexibility because it can harness all the independently developed technologies for the Mac, ones that are really well documented.

If there was a compatible Pi or some such server device, I for sure wouldn't run Indigo on it.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:27 am
spiv offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

Different Computers wrote:
A couple of things:
RE: a dedicated appliance-- .. If there was a compatible Pi or some such server device, I for sure wouldn't run Indigo on it.


Not suggesting the Mac version of Indigo would be abandoned - just asking for a lower-price point entry into the Indigo eco-system. If Apple were to open up the Apple TV to 3rd party USB devices and more tvOS capability, or even just build a $200 Mac Mini, that would be fine.

As an industry veteran I remember my first computer - it as an S-100 bus customized system I built from both IMSAI 8080 and Cromemco ZPU parts. I remember the reaction to the introduction of the first IBM PC - all the techies said "what a piece of junk", it'll never replace the power and flexibility of our "real" S-100 computers.

Guess which product won in the marketplace and guess which applications programs are still available? (hint: this is a rhetorical question).

I just see Indigo getting squeezed by the entry-level pricing of cheap hubs, or even "hub less" solutions and the market force potential of Apple HomeKit and Google Home (soon). It does not have to share the fate of S-100 computing.

Take a look at what the iOS app "Simple Control" (an AV control solution) has done http://www.simplecontrol.com. They were a software-only iOS app that competed with Logitech Harmony and other programmable remotes. They have created a hardware hub "Simple Hub" for $270 that replaces a small piece of software running on a Mac. At first glance, this seems ludicrous - who would want to spend almost $300 for the same functionality as a small piece of software they sell for $50 that does the same thing on the Mac or Apple TV.

They started out as a software-only Apple product that works with some 3rd party hardware (Global Cache IR blasters/transmitter) and decided they needed to add a hardware hub because requiring a Mac to get some of their advanced features was too limiting to their market.

Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:51 pm
bschollnick2 offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

spiv wrote:
Different Computers wrote:
A couple of things:
RE: a dedicated appliance-- .. If there was a compatible Pi or some such server device, I for sure wouldn't run Indigo on it.


Not suggesting the Mac version of Indigo would be abandoned - just asking for a lower-price point entry into the Indigo eco-system. If Apple were to open up the Apple TV to 3rd party USB devices and more tvOS capability, or even just build a $200 Mac Mini, that would be fine.


I agree with SPIV.

I wouldn't want the macintosh version of Indigo to be eliminated. But a significant portion of indigo is python based, if we're not using Applescript functionality, then why wouldn't a small enclosure, with a lower power draw be a bad idea?

I have a RPI2+, and I use it for automation purposes, and it's fantastic. Even a small server version of Indigo on the RPI would be an interesting idea.

I've been a faithful Indigo user since v2... But sometimes I've considered retiring my imac that is running indigo, due to age, and cost. The thought of a smaller form factor (both hardware and software) is appealing...

- Benjamin

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:24 pm
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

So, in essence, you guys are thinking of an "Indigo Vera" device. I think it's an awesome idea but while pretty much 100% of the external access to Indigo is Python based (i.e., plugins, etc) the program itself is still quite a bit of Obj-C and that's a bit harder to re-invent for a stand-alone device.

I worry about the cost to Indigo for taking on such an endeavor. To go from a strong computer based product to an appliance will likely mean plenty of sacrifices in doing so, some of which may be unacceptable to end users. There's also the actual R&D/Production/Deployment costs for building and getting the appliance out there, Indigo would have to take on a substantial investor to back it unless they did it all on a Raspberry Pi (which most non-geek users wouldn't understand how to use), so in the end your super duper Indigo appliance could either be a $500 full featured appliance (might as well stick with a new Mac Mini or by one off Craigslist for $200) or a $50 Vera-esque device that acts and breaks just like a Vera.

Again, I think it would be absolutely awesome to have a stand-alone Indigo appliance but I've used enough competing products that, for me, Indigo the way it is beats the hell out of everything else.

So, Apple has HomeKit and it's super cool (and super limited) and - oh by the way - Indigo supports that too. And Amazon has a super cool voice activated box (with questionable privacy policies) and - oh by the way - Indigo supports that too. And Google is coming out with a super cool HA system to compete against Apple and Amazon (with even scarier privacy policies) and - oh by the way - you can bet your bottom dollar there will be a plugin for that too.

And all of this was done by two guys in Texas. For a $200 used Mac Mini on Craigslist I'm spending about $100 more than a typical appliance and getting about a zillion more features. Indigo isn't without it's faults, limitations, some frustrations and cost but IMHO they are far less than competing products.

All that being said, however, there's no reason people can't dabble into appliances now using "add-ons" from Raspberry or Arduino that can let you extend Indigo in useful ways but for either of those to replace it entirely is a tall order I think.

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:59 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

bschollnick2 wrote:
But a significant portion of indigo is python based


Really :?:

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:07 pm
wiery offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

I have to agree and would not be in favour of a Pi type device, they are too limited, not enough horsepower. For me a mac mini is ideal. Yes it may cost more but its a long term investment. Its also more than just an indigo server. It can very easily double as a media centre and also run great programs like security spy and has the flexibility of USB extensions for devices like the RFXTRX(E). I personally don't think a Pi would be capable of running much more than a home automation server and would probably be slow at that. I don't think the investment in a Mac Mini is huge and i'm sure almost everyone here has spent a lot more on devices such as door / window sensors etc, far more than the cost of a Mac and Indigo. I'll give you a prime example, look at the Fibaro HC2, a very expensive Raspberry Pi for all intensin purposes without the ability to use the USB ports. It is limited by a slow CPU, very little memory and as such has a pretty terrible Z-Wave implementation. I would not like to see Indigo diluted from the core OSX base and as it is pretty much rock solid, and well maintained with commercial support, Indigo now has an exceptional product that can be expanded upon, although the big dogs are finally waking up to HA so I do hope nothing major changes in how Indigo has progressed. The cost of Indigo, once off or subscription based is still very little compared to what is spent on hardware devices.

Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:07 pm
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

jay (support) wrote:
bschollnick2 wrote:
But a significant portion of indigo is python based


Really :?:


Which is why I responded:
Colorado4Wheeler wrote:
while pretty much 100% of the external access to Indigo is Python based (i.e., plugins, etc) the program itself is still quite a bit of Obj-C


:D

My Modest Contributions to Indigo:

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:12 pm
Colorado4Wheeler offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

jay (support) wrote:
Really

Hold on a sec, while it's not 100% Python, it IS about 93.24% Visual Basic 4 though right? I mean, that one other guy on that OTHER forum did say that it looked like a 90's accounting program :P

My Modest Contributions to Indigo:

HomeKit Bridge | Device Extensions | Security Manager | LCD Creator | Room-O-Matic | Smart Dimmer | Scene Toggle | Powermiser | Homebridge Buddy

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:17 pm
DaveL17 offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

Colorado4Wheeler wrote:
jay (support) wrote:
Really

Hold on a sec, while it's not 100% Python, it IS about 93.24% Visual Basic 4 though right? I mean, that one other guy on that OTHER forum did say that it looked like a 90's accounting program :P

Heh!

I'll take works properly over spiffy graphics every day and twice on Sunday.

Dave

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:21 pm
durosity offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

90's accounting program?! Why that's what I spend all my day supporting.... :/

Computer says no.

Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:44 pm
bschollnick2 offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

jay (support) wrote:
bschollnick2 wrote:
But a significant portion of indigo is python based


Really :?:


Isn't it? The web server portion is python based? I'm assuming that the server is python, and the GUI client is just a Objective C client accessing the server...

I can be wrong... But that's the basis of the assumption I made... .

- Ben

------
My Plugins for Indigo (v4, v5, and v6) - http://bit.ly/U8XxPG

Security Script for v4 - http://bit.ly/QTgclf
for v5 - http://bit.ly/T6WBKu

Support Forum(s) - http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/userforum/viewforum.php?f=33

Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:45 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

Colorado4Wheeler wrote:
jay (support) wrote:
Really

Hold on a sec, while it's not 100% Python, it IS about 93.24% Visual Basic 4 though right? I mean, that one other guy on that OTHER forum did say that it looked like a 90's accounting program :P


No, no, no, you're thinking of that OTHER Mac home automation application... :lol:

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:46 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

bschollnick2 wrote:
I'm assuming that the server is python


Incorrect. ;)

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Posted on
Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:49 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Which 3 technologies/devices would you like to see suppo

FORTRAN 90 with a mixture of machine code.

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