Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

Posted on
Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:07 am
oratzes offline
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Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

First of all I would like to say thank you for Indigo as a platform for home automation and one of the best product websites in this space out there. The Wiki and Forums contain a ton of very useful information and the responsiveness on questions and requests is excellent.

Having said that I would like to describe a feature request that would take Indigo with regards to INSTEON devices to another level.

INSTEON Scene Management

Right now (as of 6.x) Indigo supports the vast majority of INSTEON capabilities, including managing individual links from controllers to responders. Scene management is a level up from link management.

INSTEON is a very slow but fairly reliable communication protocol. The more devices one has to address the more you need to watch how much traffic has to travel to the various devices. For example: Turning on 10 individual devices with individual commands will take several seconds. Dimming these devices in sync is only possible through the concept of links/scenes in INSTEON.

An INSTEON scene links controllers and responders directly together and allows a controller to send a direct command to all its responders. Through a fully designed INSTEON scene, 10 even 100 individual devices can be controlled completely in sync.

Here are two examples that I have implemented in various locations of the house (am heading towards all rooms):
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Keypad Links are a nice usability enabler that allows users to leverage the home automation without having a remote or smart phone in their hands. Especially my wife really only started to accept the HA system, once she could see the scenes she wanted to activate in the rooms and through out the house.

As you can also see in these examples, various locations also leverage a radio button setup for Home (Green) and Away (Red).

The 6 button and 8 button keypad links are excellent drop ins for existing switch boxes. Cannot get lost, permanently powered and located where one would assume to find a switch.

One particular drawback of Indigo is the limitation of only being able to link to one devices of such a Keypad for a single scene. That basically prevents the use of the dimming function of the keypad link itself when it also needs to be part of a scene that is also on a button of the same Keypad.

In order to manage scenes significantly easier here is the request:

First of all the limitation of mapping to the load and a button at the same time needs to be addressed. Not sure if this needs to be 1:N mapping. Other controllers manage it through extending the INSTEON address with the channel/button number.
24.69.32 becomes 24.69.32.1 for a regular devices and 24.69.32.1, 24.69.32.2, 24.69.32.3, 24.69.32.4.... for a Keypad link. hat way each button has its own virtual address and the controller converts that to the actual INSTEON address needed for the protocol.

Next it would be great to define scenes rather than individual links. The UI could allow a user to select all the responders and controllers of a scenes and auto create all the required links for that. Every scene needs to also auto create a Powerlinc Scene as well as all links between all controllers and responders. A scene with 4 controllers and 6 responders (10 devices total) requires 1 PowerLinc Scene/Group, and 6+4 links per controller - in this example this ends up being 40 device links plus 10 PLM links (Powerlinc group). Changes in dim levels or ramp rates need to be manually edited in up to 50 places for this sample setup.

In other words the UI would only need to define a total of 10 devices (4 controllers + 6 responders) and all links and groups could be managed completely automated by Indigo. Combined with the ability to link to loads and buttons at the same time, this would make hours of editing a job of a few minutes. Even more so if 20-30 of such scenes need to be setup and maintained, hundreds of individual links need to be clicked at one at a time for any change.

This feature would really make Indigo much more powerful and would leverage some of the strengths of the INSTEON protocol.

Until this feature has been implemented I am unfortunately stuck with the ISY994 as these scene setups are simply not possible or highly unmanageable within Indigo.

Hope this is helpful.

Indigo 6.0.9, Mac Mini Server 2010 Core 2 Duo 2.66 GHz 4GB RAM, OSX 10.9.1, INSTEON PowerLinc 2413U, > 100 INSTEON - primarily dual band dimmers and keypads, ISY994iZ, Pentair Intellitouch, Autelis Pool Control, Sharp Aquos LED TV, Pioneer SC-75, ...

Posted on
Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:15 am
matt (support) offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

I believe I fully understand the usability problems you are encountering now. It sounds like it comes down to 3 features:

  • self-referencing links
  • scene objects that are shared across multiple controllers
  • fixing the limitation in Indigo that prevents a scene from containing multiple targets on the same module

All of these were on our feature request list separately, but I'm going to re-organize the requests since they all relate to scenes and the usability problems you are encountering.

Thanks for the feedback and specific details succinctly explaining the problems you encountered.

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Posted on
Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:05 am
oratzes offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

You are very welcome! You've created an excellent platform and maybe this will help taking it one level further.

Thank you!

Indigo 6.0.9, Mac Mini Server 2010 Core 2 Duo 2.66 GHz 4GB RAM, OSX 10.9.1, INSTEON PowerLinc 2413U, > 100 INSTEON - primarily dual band dimmers and keypads, ISY994iZ, Pentair Intellitouch, Autelis Pool Control, Sharp Aquos LED TV, Pioneer SC-75, ...

Posted on
Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:03 pm
oratzes offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

Any updates on this?

Indigo 6.0.9, Mac Mini Server 2010 Core 2 Duo 2.66 GHz 4GB RAM, OSX 10.9.1, INSTEON PowerLinc 2413U, > 100 INSTEON - primarily dual band dimmers and keypads, ISY994iZ, Pentair Intellitouch, Autelis Pool Control, Sharp Aquos LED TV, Pioneer SC-75, ...

Posted on
Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:08 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

Afraid not. Indigo Touch is the top priority right now.

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Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:59 am
oratzes offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

Checking in to see if this has gotten enabled in the newer releases or if there is a different way to do this.

e.g. I would have no issue using e.g. Python and an API to create all the links required to enabled complex INSTEON scenes.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Indigo 6.0.9, Mac Mini Server 2010 Core 2 Duo 2.66 GHz 4GB RAM, OSX 10.9.1, INSTEON PowerLinc 2413U, > 100 INSTEON - primarily dual band dimmers and keypads, ISY994iZ, Pentair Intellitouch, Autelis Pool Control, Sharp Aquos LED TV, Pioneer SC-75, ...

Posted on
Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:02 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

No update yet, but still on our feature request list. :-)

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Posted on
Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:55 pm
oratzes offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

Thanks for the reply.

On the topic of APIs - can any of that information be created from the outside? E.g. I could write a python module that generates all the links, as long as there is an API to write that information.

Indigo 6.0.9, Mac Mini Server 2010 Core 2 Duo 2.66 GHz 4GB RAM, OSX 10.9.1, INSTEON PowerLinc 2413U, > 100 INSTEON - primarily dual band dimmers and keypads, ISY994iZ, Pentair Intellitouch, Autelis Pool Control, Sharp Aquos LED TV, Pioneer SC-75, ...

Posted on
Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:25 pm
gsbrewer offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

Is there any way to read Insteon link information from a device (and scene) within python? I seem to have a gremlin in my system somewhere (maybe line noise?) that corrupts links and scenes (linking to nonexistent devices etc). I would like to write a routine that looks for all devices listed in scenes (and device-to-device links) for any unknown device IDs /addresses, then send myself a flag for the devices and scenes to review manually.

When a bad link or scene is activated, the 2413U goes on vacation for about 20 minutes... messages come in from my Z-Wave Fibaro multi sensors, but no commands will go out to any device (neither from the UI nor from my python plugin) - just time-outs from every Insteon device. The Insteon network is locked up. During the 20 minute break, I have tried resetting the 2413, re-linking everything, but alas still no outbound commands (either from my plug-in nor from the UI). The only cure is time.

This happens every few weeks, but I'm not sure what device is causing the issue. Unfortunately, I have hundreds of devices and manually going through them to evaluate every link on a device-by-device basis in indigo takes an enormous amount of time... but after I am done (and delete all the bad links), it works fine for a few weeks.

I apologize if this request is elsewhere on this site, but I couldn't find it with the phrases I tried to type.

Thanks for any help

Posted on
Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:59 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Feature Request: INSTEON Scene Management

Answered on your other forum thread.

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