INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Posted on
Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:35 pm
joemurrayaz offline
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INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Why is there a one-minute delay on the motion sensor? The motion sensor has a limitation is that you can't change the period of inactivity before the off is sent. It is fixed at 1 minute. This means if there is no motion after one minute, the off command will be sent. You can defeat the off command altogether, via jumper. The problem with this configuration is that you won't get successive ON triggers as long as activity is going on so you don't get the opportunity to reset an Indigo timer every time there is motion. You only get another ON after there is at least one minute of inactivity, followed by additional motion.

Posted on
Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:31 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

joemurrayaz wrote:
Why is there a one-minute delay on the motion sensor? The motion sensor has a limitation is that you can't change the period of inactivity before the off is sent. It is fixed at 1 minute. This means if there is no motion after one minute, the off command will be sent. You can defeat the off command altogether, via jumper. The problem with this configuration is that you won't get successive ON triggers as long as activity is going on so you don't get the opportunity to reset an Indigo timer every time there is motion. You only get another ON after there is at least one minute of inactivity, followed by additional motion.


There is a claim on the Smarthome website that Houselink2 is able to change a few of the parameters of the motion sensor, including the inactivity timer. My guess is that they haven't made the relevant info available to anyone else yet...

Posted on
Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:43 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

joemurrayaz wrote:
Why is there a one-minute delay on the motion sensor?

The 1 minute delay is the factory default. Unfortunately, the only way to change it is by sending it an INSTEON Extended Data Command. Extra unfortunate is the fact that the PowerLinc 2414U cannot send Extended Data Commands. The PowerLinc PLM can, but Indigo doesn't support the PLM yet. It is on our ToDo list, however. I tried to talk SmartLabs into adding a non-Extended command to change those settings, but they didn't have time to do it.

Changing the jumper so that the detector does not send the OFF command makes it pretty useless for Indigo usage. In that scenario you'll get the initial ON command, but then if motion continues at intervals less than 1 minute you won't ever receive additional ON commands. So from Indigo's perspective there is no way to tell the difference between having 1 motion event and having infinite motion events if they are spaced less than 1 minute apart.

So in an example where you want Indigo turn ON a Device when motion is detected, then turn it OFF 15 minutes later I would:
  • Make sure the motion sensor's jumper is in the default position so that OFF commands are sent.
  • Create a Trigger Action that on motion sensor ON turns on the other module. Add another action as well that Executes this embedded AppleScript:
    Code: Select all
    remove delayed actions for device "remote device name here"
  • Create another Trigger Action that on motion sensor OFF turns off the other module, and use the Delay by 15 minutes option in the action panel.

I think that will work, although I haven't tested it.

There are other approaches to solve the problem as well, such as using an Indigo Variable or the Enable/Disable Trigger action types. Looks like we probably need to build in some additional logic to Indigo to handle the delayed auto-off scenario in these cases, but in the mean time there are workarounds.

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Posted on
Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:17 pm
joemurrayaz offline
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

support wrote:
I tried to talk SmartLabs into adding a non-Extended command to change those settings, but they didn't have time to do it.


Do you think they will implement this with a future firmware version of the sensor?

Posted on
Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:18 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

support wrote:
The PowerLinc PLM can, but Indigo doesn't support the PLM yet. It is on our ToDo list, however.


When do you think you will support the PLM?

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:29 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

joemurrayaz wrote:
Do you think they will implement this with a future firmware version of the sensor?

I have no idea. They would have to answer that question.
joemurrayaz wrote:
When do you think you will support the PLM?

We generally don't discuss future features. The one exception being that improved iPhone support is our top priority.

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Posted on
Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:14 pm
berkinet offline
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

support wrote:
joemurrayaz wrote:
Why is there a one-minute delay on the motion sensor?

The 1 minute delay is the factory default. Unfortunately, the only way to change it is by sending it an INSTEON Extended Data Command.


If I just want to change the inactivity-timeout value on the motion sensor, it seems I could use the Powerlinc PLM and connect to it with any serial terminal program (or even a real terminal) and then manually enter the appropriate INSTEON extended commands to make the change.

My question, to those that know far more than I, is: Is this practical and if so; what is/are the command(s)

TIA

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Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:32 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

I think that might work, although I'm not sure if that information is considered to fall under SmartLab's NDA or not. Therefore, I cannot post it.

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Posted on
Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:45 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

support wrote:
I think that might work, although I'm not sure if that information is considered to fall under SmartLab's NDA or not. Therefore, I cannot post it.


I have waited a while to see if anyone else could post the programming strings, but so far no further response. So, does anyone out there know the appropriate code strings for programming the off-delay setting on the motion detector??

Posted on
Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:32 pm
bobeast offline
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

joemurrayaz wrote:
Do you think they will implement this with a future firmware version of the sensor?


* Venstar thermo adapter fails to broadcast state changes.
* KeypadLinc LEDs are to bright even at their lowest setting.
* Etched Keypad buttons can't be read at might (dark colors)

These are all examples of things SmartLabs "didn't have time" to get into the shipping product. I've seen no evidence that resolving these long-standing issues are a priority for them, so wouldn't expect the motion sensor issues to be any different. Thank goodness (and Matt) that Indigo is versatile enough to at least work-around some of them.

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Posted on
Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:13 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Indigo 4.0 beta 8 (to be posted shortly) has improvements for both INSTEON and X10 Motion Sensors. Specifically, Indigo now gives an ON/OFF state to motion sensors and has some options for automatically managing the auto-off duration amount. I've updated the Motion Sensor wiki page with some more specifics.

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Posted on
Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:13 pm
bobeast offline
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

support wrote:
Indigo 4.0 beta 8 (to be posted shortly) has improvements for both INSTEON and X10 Motion Sensors. Specifically, Indigo now gives an ON/OFF state to motion sensors and has some options for automatically managing the auto-off duration amount. I've updated the Motion Sensor wiki page with some more specifics.


Thanks! I've been looking forward this. Quick Q. The wiki implied this, but I just want to be sure. In the given example, if motion continues on the porch, for say, 25 minutes, from the first trigger, then the total time the porch light stays on would be a little over 55 minutes? (30 + 25 + device's internal off-delay setting) Have I got that right?

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Posted on
Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:19 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

bobeast wrote:
In the given example, if motion continues on the porch, for say, 25 minutes, from the first trigger, then the total time the porch light stays on would be a little over 55 minutes? (30 + 25 + device's internal off-delay setting) Have I got that right?

Correct, the motion sensor wouldn't send the OFF until 25 + internal off-delay, then Indigo will automatically manage an additional 30 minute delay on top of that.

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Posted on
Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:28 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

support wrote:
Correct, the motion sensor wouldn't send the OFF until 25 + internal off-delay, then Indigo will automatically manage an additional 30 minute delay on top of that.


Thanks Matt. Just what the doctor ordered!

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Dare to dance the tide.

Posted on
Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:38 pm
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Insteon MD with NO OFF option

It appears that the new support for Motion Detectors has some intelligence about the type of motion detector being used. Thus, if I am using an Insteon MD I am not offered the mode to set the state to OFF: After delay of N minutes from when module last sent ON . The documentation says: This option should never be used for INSTEON motion sensors because they never send consecutive ON commands (they always send ON/OFF commands in pairs).

But, since I have my Insteon MDs set with the On-Only-Mode option (Jumper 4 ON) I would like to use the mode noted above, but I can't since it is grayed out. Is there a way around this, or do I have to open all my MDs and reset the option to send OFF?

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