INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

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Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:51 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Insteon MD with NO OFF option

That option isn't selectable in Indigo because it is not Indigo compatible. The INSTEON Motion Sensors, when that jumper is set, only sends the ON command if the delay period in the Motion Sensor has expired (X10 motion sensors will re-send the ON after just a few seconds of delay). So with that jumper set these two events would result in the exact same command sequence being sent to Indigo, which would be a single ON command at the beginning and no subsequent commands:

1) User walks by the motion sensor and then never walks by it again.

2) User walks by the motion sensor every 55 seconds all day long.

Basically, IMO, having that jumper set is never a good idea. Once it is set the Motion Sensor ceases to be useful from the perspective that receiving modules cannot differentiate between a single motion event and N motion events that are less than 1 minute (or maybe longer) apart.

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Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:59 pm
berkinet offline
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Re: Insteon MD with NO OFF option

support wrote:
... when that jumper is set, only sends the ON command if the delay period in the Motion Sensor has expired... ...So with that jumper set these two events would result in the exact same command sequence being sent to Indigo, which would be a single ON command at the beginning and no subsequent commands

Matt:

Ok, that makes sense. So, does that mean that when I set On-Only-Mode OFF that ON commands will be sent any time motion is detected?

BTW, I set On-Only-Mode because I was using the timer script and didn't think I needed the Offs.

Richard

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Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:02 pm
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Re: Insteon MD with NO OFF option

berkinet wrote:
Ok, that makes sense. So, does that mean that when I set On-Only-Mode OFF that ON commands will be sent any time motion is detected?

Nope, they are still only sent if the Motion Sensor's time-delay-until-OFF has not been hit. The difference is that Indigo will at least get that OFF command if no motion has been seen after the delay, so it can know that the motion stopped 1 minute before. So if you have motion every 60 seconds for 3 hours, the motion sensor will send 1 ON command, then 1 OFF command 3 hours and 1 minute later.

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Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:23 pm
berkinet offline
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Thanks Matt:

So, now a general question for you or others who have passed this way before...

This new capability in Indigo to set an off time after an arbitrary delay seems to work fine for a single motion detector. But, what about a scenario where several motion detectors control the light or lights. I think the classic example is the long hallway with a MD at each end, and maybe even in the middle.

Previously, we used a timer script and had every MD "ON," regardless of which MD saw the motion, reset a countdown timer to some arbitrary high value. When the timer finally reached zero, the lights would go out.

Is there now some way to accomplish the same end, without the timer script? Off the top of my head, I could create a variable to go "ON" if any MD went "ON." Subsequent ONs would have no effect. The problem, it seems to me, would be in determining when to turn the lights off. In other words, there would have to be some way to determine which OFF was the final off.

Ideas?

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Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:44 pm
jay (support) offline
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berkinet wrote:
Thanks Matt:

So, now a general question for you or others who have passed this way before...

This new capability in Indigo to set an off time after an arbitrary delay seems to work fine for a single motion detector. But, what about a scenario where several motion detectors control the light or lights. I think the classic example is the long hallway with a MD at each end, and maybe even in the middle.

Previously, we used a timer script and had every MD "ON," regardless of which MD saw the motion, reset a countdown timer to some arbitrary high value. When the timer finally reached zero, the lights would go out.

Is there now some way to accomplish the same end, without the timer script? Off the top of my head, I could create a variable to go "ON" if any MD went "ON." Subsequent ONs would have no effect. The problem, it seems to me, would be in determining when to turn the lights off. In other words, there would have to be some way to determine which OFF was the final off.

Ideas?


Off the top of my head (not really thinking much about it): what if you increment each time you see an on (and turn the light on), then decrement each time you see an off, and when you get to 0 turn the light off...

Jay (Indigo Support)
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Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:01 pm
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jay brilliantly wrote:
...what if you increment each time you see an on (and turn the light on), then decrement each time you see an off, and when you get to 0 turn the light off...

Wow, so simple. Sounds like it should work, and with the new delay the lights will go off N minutes after the last OFF (not just the 1 minute built-in default).

I'll give it a try and report back.

Thanks.

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Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:53 pm
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I wrote:
I'll give it a try and report back.
It works. Actually, there was no reason it shouldn't. For those that may wish to try this, and need a few hints, here is an outline of what I did.

The basic theory is that the lights come on when the first on is received from one or more motion detectors. The lights then stay on until after the last detector has sent it's off. The delay after the last off is managed in the DEVICE setting.

For each Motion Detector I created 2 triggers: One to look for a change in state to on, the other to look for a change in state to off. The action of the "on" trigger is to increment a variable, call it MD_Activity, by 1, the action of the "off" trigger is to decrement MD_Activity by one.

I then created two more triggers that watch the value of MD_Activity. Trigger 1 watches to see if MD_Activity goes greater than 0, if it does, the action is to turn on the lights. The second trigger looks for MD_Activity to have a value of zero. If that happens the action is to turn the lights off.

I added one more trigger that is probably not necessary... in testing, I found I created some cases where MD_Activity became negative. In real use this might be caused by a missed on event. So, I created a trigger that look at MD_Activity and if it goes negative (less than 0) the action is to set MD_Activity to 0.

I will probably also add a safety off timer to set MD_Activity to zero if it is on too long. But, I need to give more though to that first.

There is probably a way to make this more efficient, but it works and can be done using only the UI and does not require scripting.

Thanks Jay and Matt

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Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:36 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

way back in Nov 2008, support wrote:
The 1 minute delay is the factory default. Unfortunately, the only way to change it is by sending it an INSTEON Extended Data Command. Extra unfortunate is the fact that the PowerLinc 2414U cannot send Extended Data Commands. The PowerLinc PLM can, but Indigo doesn't support the PLM yet. It is on our ToDo list...
Now that Indigo supports the PLMs, is the ability to adjust the motion sensor (2420M) delay back on the Radar?

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Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:48 pm
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Re: Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Definitely on the radar (along with other PLM-only extended command features), but we are trying to focus on the big 5.0 features right now :-) so it won't be in a near term release.

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Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:56 am
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Create a Trigger Action that on motion sensor ON turns on the other module. Add another action as well that Executes this embedded AppleScript:
remove delayed actions for device "remote device name here"


This little bit of code fixed my issue with lights turning off prematurely when weather conditions changed!

I have several triggers that turn on our office lights when motion is detected if it's cloudy/rainy/foggy/etc., but when the variable would change (such as cloudy to rainy) it wouldn't remove the old delay to turn off the lights, thus causing them to turn off when they shouldn't. A slight modification of your bit of applescript fixed this!

THANK YOU!!!

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Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:09 pm
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I configure the activity timing on my 2420M's using the little dial inside the device. The "Automatic Off Countdown" can be modified from 30 seconds to 2 hours. Granted, you can't tell what the actual number is with you turn the dial, but you can at least turn the "off" down to 30 seconds.

http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2420MqsRev2.0.pdf (see #10 - Adjust Modes)

I have multiple sensors in a room trigger a "motion detected" variable. The "off" command on the lighting is configured as a delayed action from the last moment motion was detected (when the "motion detected" becomes false). If motion is detected again, the variable becomes true and the "off" delayed action is cleared. The process starts again when the variable turns to false.

Posted on
Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:39 pm
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Does anyone know how to disable the dusk/dawn sensor on these motion sensors? I find that whenever a night-to-day or day-to-night transition occurs, causing a scene 2 command to be sent, a scene 1 command is also sent (even when there is no motion).

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Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:55 pm
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

gmusser wrote:
Does anyone know how to disable the dusk/dawn sensor on these motion sensors? I find that whenever a night-to-day or day-to-night transition occurs, causing a scene 2 command to be sent, a scene 1 command is also sent (even when there is no motion).


Sounds like you have a defective sensor. I never receive group 1 commands on the day/night switch. You might see about getting a replacement from SmartHome. I have 14 sensors, and none of them exhibit this behavior.

In either case, you can disable this with jumper 3. See the PDF in my link above.

Posted on
Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:29 pm
CaliChris offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

Should jumper 5 (control motion sensor via software) be enabled for the Insteon sensor using Indigo?

Posted on
Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:38 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: INSTEON Motion Sensor One Minute Delay

No, Indigo doesn't currently manage the settings remotely (sensitivity and delay) and is able to add/modify/delete links regardless of the jumper 5 position.

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