Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

Posted on
Mon May 28, 2018 1:59 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

The persistent state of a link is just an Indigo level setting/preference on a link. It tells Indigo that you want the link to be re-written back to the device on sync if the link is missing. Links created in Indigo default to persistent. If the module is reset or swapped, then on the next sync Indigo will automatically re-write those links to the module. Links added externally to the module (manually; not from Indigo) arenot flagged as persistent by default.

Have you tried plugging the module into the same power strip as the PowerLinc? Can you add/sync it there? Also try plugging the PowerLinc into different circuits (different outlets). Since you are just troubleshooting you can do this quickly by just using an extension cord. Does it work better somewhere else? If so, then you know the problem is because of signal noise or attenuation and not because of a malfunctioning PowerLinc.

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Posted on
Mon May 28, 2018 4:13 pm
brianlloyd offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

OK, this is the thread I started to deal with my failed Insteon network. (My other thread was on the Leviton VRCZ4-M04 scene controller.)

I have changed the 2413U. I have plugged modules into the same circuit with no change in behavior. I receive insteon messages just fine. Indigo cannot SEND messages to any device. I just get the "send failed (no acknowledgement)" error.

So, what could cause the 2413U to be able to receive but not send? Or is it possible it is something else?

Posted on
Mon May 28, 2018 4:30 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

Follow these steps:

  1. Open the Event Log window and click the Clear Window button.
  2. Edit one of the Insteon devices that isn't responding to commands and click the define and sync button.
  3. Copy the entire contents of the event log window into a reply post.

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Posted on
Mon May 28, 2018 6:21 pm
brianlloyd offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

May 28, 2018 at 19:20:02
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
PowerLinc Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 44.85.2E)
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 3C.3E.18, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
PowerLinc Linking - . . adding: (not added -- probably already exists)
PowerLinc Linking - sync complete
PowerLinc Linking - PowerLinc links updated
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
PowerLinc Linking - sending engine version request to 3C.3E.18
PowerLinc Linking - no response from device
Error Linking - device failed to send engine version information
Error linking failed
PowerLinc Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
Z-Wave received "Thermostat, house" temperature update to 75 °F
Trigger Set HouseTempVariable
Z-Wave received "Thermostat, house" fan is off
PowerLinc Linking - exited linking mode

Posted on
Tue May 29, 2018 2:55 pm
JackBenoit offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

I went out and bought a non-protected power strip and plugged the 2413U into it and then added the switch next to it on the strip. I attempted to add the switch to Indigo and, lo and behold, IT WORKED!!!!. I then moved the switch to another part of the house ( 2 floors down) and it worked there.
My Indigo mac minni is in my attic but I usually control it by screen sharing on my Mac Pro in the computer room one flight down. That is where I was plugging in the switch in my early attempts to add it to Indigo. The computer room has 2 (sometimes 3) Macs, cable modem, 3 printers, wifi router, etc. I'm assuming they are causing power line (and RF?) noise. I should have figured it out by myself! Now, until the next problem, all I have to deal with is why a 2 wire (1930s wiring) switch stopped working when I installed the new 2413U.
THANK YOU FOR THE SUGGESTION!!

By the way the messages brian lloyd was getting in the message yesterday are exactly what I was getting when it failed.

Posted on
Wed May 30, 2018 3:54 pm
matt (support) offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

Yes, this is why we suggest using an extension cord to try the PowerLinc in several different outlets (on different circuits). If there is something on the circuit that causes a lot of noise or attenuated the signal significantly then you can get all sorts of errors, including ones like above.

Brian: have you tried that troubleshooting suggestion yet?

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Posted on
Thu May 31, 2018 7:07 am
brianlloyd offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

matt (support) wrote:
Yes, this is why we suggest using an extension cord to try the PowerLinc in several different outlets (on different circuits). If there is something on the circuit that causes a lot of noise or attenuated the signal significantly then you can get all sorts of errors, including ones like above.

Brian: have you tried that troubleshooting suggestion yet?


Yes, multiple times. This isn't the first time I have seen this failure. The first time replacing the 2413u solved the problem.

This time it didn't. This is an old installation, several years old. It was working just fine. Then it just stopped one day with no changes in installed devices on the various outlets. That is when I had SmartHome send me a replacement 2314U which exhibits the same symptoms. The 2413U is plugged directly into an outlet with no plugstrip and no other noise-attenuating devices on the circuit. I have a bridge between legs of the 240V feed at the distribution panel. I have a signal enhancer in a dedicated plug at the box. None of these things seem to make a difference. And there is the RF path as well even if the wireline path is noisy.

Now, the rub is, it doesn't explain why my 2413U can receive messages from devices but not send them. The same path exists to/from the 2413U and the ButtonLinc. (This is the last Insteon device left in my network. I have switched everything else over to Z-Wave.)

Posted on
Thu May 31, 2018 8:52 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

brianlloyd wrote:
(This is the last Insteon device left in my network. I have switched everything else over to Z-Wave.)


And this might be part of the problem: Insteon works better when there are more devices than just a couple (though it also gets worse once you start getting much higher numbers). I've also seen odd behavior with the wired-in signal bridges (I'd recommend turning that off to see if that changes anything). Also, dual-band devices always try the power line first before falling back to RF. So if there are issues when trying to talk via the power line that cause the device to get hung up, it may not fall back to RF as it should. At least, this used to be the behavior - not sure if they've addressed that with newer devices.

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Posted on
Thu May 31, 2018 9:08 am
brianlloyd offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

jay (support) wrote:
brianlloyd wrote:
(This is the last Insteon device left in my network. I have switched everything else over to Z-Wave.)


And this might be part of the problem: Insteon works better when there are more devices than just a couple (though it also gets worse once you start getting much higher numbers).


I had about 15 Insteon devices. They all quit talking to the 2413U at the same time. Those that had associations continued to work with each other tho'. I kept paring things down and replacing them with Z-wave devices (more reliable by far) as I went. Nothing changed.

I've also seen odd behavior with the wired-in signal bridges (I'd recommend turning that off to see if that changes anything).


I agree. I have never found the signal bridge to make any difference in how an Insteon device worked. If it worked, it worked. If it didn't, adding the various signal-enhancing devices didn't seem to help.

Also, dual-band devices always try the power line first before falling back to RF. So if there are issues when trying to talk via the power line that cause the device to get hung up, it may not fall back to RF as it should. At least, this used to be the behavior - not sure if they've addressed that with newer devices.


'Tis a conundrum! I really have kind of reached the end of my rope. At this point I am beginning to think that the new 2413U they sent me as a replacement is bad too.

Posted on
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:17 am
kelmk offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

I know this is an old thread but I'm getting the same error. I turned off a breaker for some lights and when I turned it back on Indigo can't communicate with any of my switches with worked previously. I'm using the usb 2448a7

This is what I get in the log

Code: Select all
   PowerLinc                       Linking - entered discovery linking mode (240 seconds)
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 00 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 31.18.E6)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 46.9F.64, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sync complete
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 00 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - PowerLinc links updated
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 43 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received FF 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received E0 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 00 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received FF 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received FF 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 0F 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sending engine version request to 46.9F.64
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 0E 15 (ignoring)
   Error                           linking canceled by user
   PowerLinc                       Linking - no response from device
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 00 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - exited linking mode
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 31 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - syncing PowerLinc links (address 31.18.E6)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - . . adding: INSTEON plc link to controller 46.9F.64, flags 03, group 01, data 00 00 FF
   PowerLinc                       Linking - sync complete
   Error                           unknown command bytes received FF 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Linking - PowerLinc links updated
   PowerLinc                       Linking - initializing remote device "living room dimmer" (address 46.9F.64, firmware version 45)
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 00 15 (ignoring)
   PowerLinc                       Unexpected command 02 15 (flushing)
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 2A 15 (ignoring)
   Error                           unknown command bytes received F0 15 (ignoring)
   Error                           unknown command bytes received 07 15 (ignoring)
   Error                           Linking - initializing failed
   Error                           linking failed

Posted on
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:07 am
kelmk offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

So I ended up having to reinstall a super old version of OSX 10.7.3 but everything seems to be working fine now. Very odd that it was working fine with the latest High Sierra for quite a while until it decided to crap out.

Posted on
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:54 am
jay (support) offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

kelmk wrote:
So I ended up having to reinstall a super old version of OSX 10.7.3 but everything seems to be working fine now. Very odd that it was working fine with the latest High Sierra for quite a while until it decided to crap out.


Those errors indicate that you're seeing the FTDI driver bug in High Sierra. Did you happen to move your PowerLinc to a different USB port (on a different hub or on your Mac)?

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Posted on
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:44 pm
kelmk offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

Actually I only have one USB port only MacBook air. I had swapped the 2448a7 between being plugged in directly and through a hub without issues until yesterday. What is the latest version of osx that still works?
Thanks.

Posted on
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:45 pm
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

lanbrown wrote:
High Sierra is where the issues started...for some.


It's where the driver issues in macOS were introduced. The majority of users who have issues with High Sierra didn't have issues before upgrading to it.

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Posted on
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:31 am
rweil1 offline
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Re: Troubleshooting failed Insteon network. Failed 2413U?

I thought I would join this topic since I have been troubleshooting my Insteon network for a week to figure out what’s wrong.

I had a power outage this week and that knocked out my 2413. I Had a brand new one sitting in a box ready to go and the linking was terrible, meaning they just wouldn’t link., and now the garbage X10 signals started coming in. I have no X10. I tried what was suggested and turned off every device one at a time and just when I thought I found the failed device because the J10 status requests stopped, If I would use any Insteon device the j10 status would start again.

After a few days I plugged in the older 2413 that I thought was dead and it did finally reset. I had to relink everything, this time with no problems. It’s been working for 2 days without any garbage in the event log so it’s not the devices themselves.

My conclusion is that the new 2413 is either bad or there is a firmware bug. My old one is version 9.13 and the new one has a much higher version, sorry cant remember what version. I’m going to reach out to Smarthome and try to figure something out.

I wish there was a workaround for having the 2413 installed on my UPS system where the Mac is but I have tried and it just doesn’t work, so it remains on an outlet that looses power.

I’m going to get another 2413 and try that as well, I’ll post what I find.

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