Understanding phase bridging

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Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:02 pm
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Understanding phase bridging

Hey, I realize this is a bit beyond the scope of Indigo, but I'm unsure where else I should turn.

What I'm running into acts a lot like a need for phase bridging, if that's the right term. I've got a big house and it was definitely originally wired by someone who was not a licensed electrician back in the 70's. We've had some professional work done and taken care of the biggest issues, for example the circuit that was wired into two different breakers so it stayed hot even when "its" breaker was turned off, but it is possible that some oddities remain undiscovered.

What I'm seeing is that some outlets respond to my PowerLinc when I put a module on them, and some do not. Now typically that could just be put down the need for bridging, and I admit that I haven't tested this really thoroughly. But what I notice is that when I've moved the PowerLinc to other outlets, this behavior doesn't change. In other words, the same outlets stay responsive when the PL moves. It seems unlikely to me that when I've moved the PL at least three times now, I've just happened to be on the same side of the circuit each time now.

Does that make sense? I can move a outlet module around a room and it works then it doesn't then it does, but wherever I put the PL, the same outlets work then they don't then they do. So I wonder if installing a bridge is going to fix this problem.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:32 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Understanding phase bridging

How many of your Insteon devices are dual-band? If it's most of them, then it's unlikely that you're experiencing a bridging issue.

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Posted on
Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:05 pm
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Re: Understanding phase bridging

So far, every one of the devices I've tested with has been an old X10 module. The PL is the only actual Insteon device I have in service.

I have an INSTEON wall switch to go in, but I hoped to fix this issue beforehand, as it's going to be professionally installed when a bunch of other office renovation electrical gets done, and it would be handy if I was sure the switch wasn't going to be on the wrong phase.

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:01 pm
jay (support) offline
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Re: Understanding phase bridging

Ah, X10... :wink:

If you really want to use X10, you'll likely need to use a hardwired X10 phase coupler. But then again, it may not help and you'll always have to deal with the inherent weaknesses and unreliability of X10.

Replace them with Insteon or Z-Wave if they're important.

Insteon dual-band devices will overcome quite a few issues that X10 can't, so trying to "fix" X10 before installing Insteon is likely going to cause you considerable pain for what may not be much gain.

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Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:22 pm
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Re: Understanding phase bridging

Thanks for the insights!

I for sure have no desire to buy more X10 stuff, but as I have half a dozen old plugin modules lying around, they're what I go to for non-essential (that is, it doesn't bother my wife if it's unreliable) control.

I'll cross my fingers and hope that all goes well with the Insteon wall switch!

SmartThings refugee, so happy to be on Indigo. Monterey on a base M1 Mini w/Harmony Hub, Hue, DomoPad, Dynamic URL, Device Extensions, HomeKitLink, Grafana, Plex, uniFAP, Fantastic Weather, Nanoleaf, LED Simple Effects, Bond Home, Camect.

Posted on
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:36 pm
makedrinklas offline
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Re: Understanding phase bridging

I have a question related to phase coupling. Currently, I have an X10 XPCR coupler repeater (active) installed in my panel and its my understanding that active couplers can cause problems with Insteon devices. My electrician is coming to remove it tomorrow in lieu of a passive coupler which apparently is recommended. X10 is having issues but I still have several devices, slowly replacing.

Which passive phase coupler will do the job, potentially also bridging for Insteon over the wires as well? I have an X10 Pro XPCP and a CP000 from Advanced Control Tech ready to go for tomorrow AM. Thoughts?

Posted on
Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:35 pm
FlyingDiver offline
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Re: Understanding phase bridging

makedrinklas wrote:
Which passive phase coupler will do the job, potentially also bridging for Insteon over the wires as well? I have an X10 Pro XPCP and a CP000 from Advanced Control Tech ready to go for tomorrow AM. Thoughts?


I have no opinion on the couplers for X10. Just be aware that you really don't need (or want) a coupler for Insteon, as it'll bridge itself over the RF link as long as you have a hardwired device on each phase of your panel.

joe (aka FlyingDiver)
my plugins: http://forums.indigodomo.com/viewforum.php?f=177

Posted on
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:18 pm
makedrinklas offline
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Re: Understanding phase bridging

Yes, that’s sort of my understanding as well, although Insteon does offer the range extenders that bridge but without having any on/off functionality. :? I’ve read somewhere that some passive X10 couplers can also assist Insteon as well as supporting X10. But no specific model was mentioned. So maybe I should not install a passive coupler but I wonder if that will continue to impact my X10 devices. They're not working anyway and I keep getting mystery device signals- noise? (Repeating code J10) Most no longer work now that I’ve installed so many Insteon devices. (Really wish there was an Insteon 220 appliance device for my shop vac.)

Thanks for your input, I understand a phase coupler is not needed but I would like to restore my X10 functionality and have both work together. It would seem one of the phase couplers I mentioned would still be needed.

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